1. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Cars vs Bicycles vs Pedestrians

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by Charlatan, Jul 14, 2011.

  1. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    Transit issues. While you may think that they don't really effect you, the fact is, at some point you are impacted them. At some point you will drive a car, ride a bike, take public transit or walk.

    In the City of Toronto, there has been a lot of teeth gnashing over a set of bike lanes that were installed on Jarvis Street, a north south artery. This week, the city council voted to remove a set of lanes that were installed only last year. They also voted to remove two additional bike lanes from a couple of suburban thoroughfares.

    Tensions continue to mount and it appears that there is a war on bikes.

    What are your views on transit. Are roads simply for cars? Is there a place for other modes of transportation? Should tax dollars go to develop robust Public Transit options. How do you think traffic congestion should be solved?

    Personally, I think there should be a healthy balance between options. A road can move more people in this order: Public Transit, Pedestrians, Bicycles and Cars. If you want less traffic, you need to encourage alternatives to the car. More car friendly roads just encourages more cars. It's a vicious cycle.

    I currently live in Singapore. Singapore understands public transit. They are spending a lot of money to expand their rail lines and bus lines (I understand they have a lot more money to throw around but a priority is a priority). They are, on the other hand, only just starting to grapple with cycling. They have many paths that are geared to recreation (a direction that Toronto appears to be headed in as well). While recreation is a commendable goal, it doesn't help those who want to arrive at a destination in the core of the city (ie ride to work).

    In a perfect world, roads would be constructed to accommodate, equally, all forms of transportation safely.

    By the way.... this is funny
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. MSD

    MSD Very Tilted

    Location:
    CT
    You will never get consensus about what's safe between drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians. We've already split pedestrians off into these sidewalks that seem to be everywhere, but drivers (and I use the term in the most catch-all, disgusted, pejorative way possible) see themselves as the kings of the road. Cyclists aren't innocent either, they believe the rules of the road don't apply to them except when convenient and run stop signs and red lights like they aren't even there.

    Bike lanes are a good thing. they provide a place for the ugly-spandex-clad cyclists to stick to themselves at a reasonable pace without forcing them to try to keep up with traffic (although they frequently can) and keep them off the sidewalks where pedestrians need their own space. It's the safest for everyone and that's what matters.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    To me bike lanes like these are the answer. These are from Copenhagen, but I think you will see similar things in Amsterdam as well.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    We have some of those dedicated bike lanes. I can't tell you how confusing it is as a pedestrian to have to look both ways on one way streets.
     
  5. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I suppose that's just a matter of getting used to the infrastructure.

    I understand that NYC has installed a tonne of new bike lanes. How is that going down? Is there a lessening of Bike vs. Cars tensions?
     
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The mayor of Toronto is a fuck-up. He went into the election crying foul about "The War on Cars." Now that he's in office (thanks to angry conservative suburbanites), he's gone ahead and turned the tables and now has started a war with two fronts: "The War on Bikes" and "The War on Public Transit."

    He believes—like many suburbanites—that cars rightfully belong at the top of the hierarchy with everything else secondary. They aren't even in the same league.

    According to the mayor:

    • Bikes are a nuisance and shouldn't be on the road (and, besides, people only ride them in the summer!), and yet it's too costly and difficult to build adequate areas where they can ride. Cars come first.

    • Public transit is okay, I guess, as long as it doesn't get in the way of cars. To ensure this happens, this will require almost completely screwing up plans already in place and jeopardizing millions of dollars in provincial funding to make badly needed improvements. Either way, improvements (no matter how retarded the mayor has now made them) are now pushed back several months, if not years.

    • Roads are for cars. Period. No dispute. No debate. If you walk, ride, or take public transit, you better make damn sure to stay out of the way.

    Worst. mayor. ever.
     
  7. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I couldn't agree more. He was an awful city councillor and he is a disaster as a mayor.

    I can't believe we have another 3.5 years of this clown.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    He's making Mel Lastman look like a fucking poster child for city mayors.
     
  9. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    New York City is about to award a contract for bike-share kiosks throughout the city. It's going to start in Manhattan and spread outwards. The bidders have to provide something like 15,000 bikes in the first year, and be ready with an additional 15,000 if the city deems it necessary.
     
  10. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    They just launched a bike-share program in Toronto, Bixie, and it appears to be doing well. There have been calls to expand the service. It was green-lit just prior to the new regime being elected.
     
  11. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    There's one starting up in Boston in the next couple of weeks. Also, DC and Alexandria, VA have one. Chicago doesn't, which I find odd. They have tourist bikes, but there are only 3 stations along the lake.
     
  12. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    I love bike lanes. I'm incredibly sad that there is no way to get from one side of our township to the other by bicycle. It is isolating living on one side of a large interchange while the rest of the town (that happens to connect up with some awesome bike paths that meander through three towns and a state park) is on the other. We are cut off, a small residential bubble in the midst of a thriving commercial district, with no pedestrian or cycling-friendly method of connecting with the suburban-style side of town. I'm not even going to go into the fact that Cincinnati built a decent art-deco styled subway only to bury it and replace it with a horrific bus system.
     
  13. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    If only I could convince the bicyclists in my town to USE the bike lanes. We have bike lanes everywhere, yet just two days ago there was a couple riding a tandem on a street that is three lanes one way, AND one of the busiest streets in our town. They were in the furthest left lane, and rode several blocks on that street, despite the fact that there are no bike lanes on that street for several blocks. AND when the bike lane did start--guess what? It's on the right hand side, and they completely ignored it. I got very irritated as a driver, because they kept floating back and forth--I'm a car, no I'm a bike, I'm a car, no I'm a bike! FFS, just MAKE UP YOUR DAMN MIND ALREADY, and if you're a bike, GET IN THE DAMN BIKE LANE! Or go a block over and use the street with a sharrow!

    By the way, I say all this as someone who uses my feet and bike as much as I use my car. I firmly believe that if there are bike lanes, bikes should be using them, not the street or the sidewalk. If there are sharrows, bikes should respond accordingly, and cars should respect the sharrow.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. martian

    martian Server Monkey Staff Member

    Location:
    Mars
    I had to Google sharrow. Can't we just call it a shared lane? Why does everything have to have a goofy name?

    MSD, cyclists are legally able to pass through stop signs in many locations so long as the way is clear. There's a name for it, though I don't remember what it is. Honestly, I wish we had that sort of rule here -- there's no need for me to stop every 200 yards on a quiet side street, and it makes my commute considerably more difficult to do so. Running red lights is idiotic though, and I won't attempt to justify it.

    I'll be the first to admit that cyclists aren't blameless, but part of it is that the laws are a bit ambiguous. When I started biking in Toronto it took me a couple weeks to figure out exactly where I fit in terms of the rules.

    As a cyclist I get irritated by other cyclists not following the rules. I'd be quite happy to see the police crack down on that kind of behaviour -- folks riding on the sidewalk, cutting off cars, blasting through crosswalks and so forth are not only endangering themselves, but also those around them and giving cyclists a black eye.

    Riding in this town is dangerous enough. I see no need to make the situation worse than it is.
     
  15. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    The benefit of a sharrow is that the space is specifically marked for sharing. Ideally, bikes could share anywhere, but cars don't make it that easy.

    There does need to be a crack down on bad riding (sidewalk riding etc.) but I can say that when I rode in Toronto, both as a courier and as a regular commuter, I found that most people followed the rules on the main roads (ie off the sidewalk, stopping for red lights) but were a lot more messy with the rules on side streets (riding the wrong way on a one way, sidewalks, coasting through stop signs etc.).

    There is a certain slackness to following the rules.
     
  16. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    It's called an Idaho Stop.

    As for the name "sharrow"--they're called such because they're for sharing, and they're marked with large arrows. Thus, sharrows.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Sharrow as a word is almost as lame as mompreneur.

    Okay, maybe not.
     
  18. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    anyone who plays video games knows that the arrows are speed bursts. duh.
     
  19. I shake my fists a lot at the cyclists in the town. When I'm driving I shake my fist when they don't use the bike lanes or when they think they don't have to obey traffic laws. As a pedestrian, I shake my fists when they ride on a sidewalk. I don't have very good balance or reaction time, so when a bike is whizzing by me on a walking path I almost fall over. I want to clothesline them sometimes. When I was walking with a cane, I'd shake my cane at them and call them young whippersnappers. They were scared.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    I want a basket for the front of my bicycle so my rabbit can ride with me. Baskets are difficult to find for my handlebars, they are too broad.