Complaining and Bitching About Guns

This is not to criticize your passion and beliefs which I respect but to address the larger issue of why I believe we, as a nation, need to address the issue of gun violence.

I quoted conservative Justice Scalia because we are a nation of laws. While you may be of the opinion that your "rights and liberties are eternal and sacred" or absolute, in fact, they are not. "Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" is not only about individual rights but also about providing or ensuring an environment where people can thrive individually and collectively. The decision was important because it correctly ruled that city handgun bans (and other highly restrictive measures) are a violation of Second Amendment rights (I agree) AND also reaffirmed that Second Amendment rights are not absolute.

The 'fire in my gut" is about how to respond to gun violence as a public safety and public health issue. I have been working on those public policy issues, directly or indirectly, for more than 30 years with organizations including National Crime Prevention Council, Police Executive Research Forum, American Public Health Association and National League of Cities

More than 36,000 people die every year (more than 100/day) from gun violence; thousands more are injured. Gun violence is a leading cause of non-medical death and injury.

Most are suicides; others are result of family violence, gang violence, and accidents (many with child victims) and the fewest as a result of other crimes committed with a gun or mass shootings.

Many are preventable with a comprehensive response that includes reasonable gun control that does not infringe in anyone's rights, along with greater focus on mental health, community awareness and involvement and other disciplines.

To ignore reasonable gun control is to ignore part of the solution.

As I posted in #53, I agree that we dont know enough on what policies might work to prevent mass shootings. I also agree that we do know enough to implement policies that could (no guarantees) deter some forms of gun violence as noted, with the caveat that these conclusions are based on limited studies and more research is needed; Congressional restrictions, limitations or deterrence of such research must end.

2. Keeping guns out of the hands of kids is good policy. There’s solid evidence that these laws reduce unintentional firearm injuries and deaths among children. There’s some evidence these laws also reduce adult unintentional firearm injuries and deaths.

3. Gun policies can decrease the number of suicides. This is no small thing: Of the more than 36,000 U.S. gun deaths each year, two-thirds are suicides. Laws that prevent kids from getting access to guns reduce the number of suicides by young people. And there’s some limited evidence that keeping guns away from people with certain mental illnesses, minimum-age requirements and background checks all prevent suicides.

4. Background checks can work. Designed to prevent certain people, such as convicted felons or those subject to a restraining order, from buying guns, background checks do reduce some gun violence. There’s moderate evidence that these laws can reduce the number of firearm homicides and suicides and limited evidence that background checks reduce violent crime and homicides in general.

5. Keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill has mixed effects. While there’s limited evidence that these laws can reduce the number of suicides, there’s slightly stronger proof that these laws reduce the amount of violent crime in general.

6. Allowing people to carry concealed guns ups gun violence. There’s limited evidence that laws that guarantee a right to carry increase unintentional firearm injuries among adults and increase violent crime.

7. Saying it’s OK to “stand your ground” can also lead to gun violence. Rather than curtailing gun deaths, there’s moderate evidence that laws that let people claim self-defense even if they don’t ty to retreat from a perceived threat lead to an uptick in homicide rates. There were no studies that met the researchers’ strict criteria demonstrating that stand-your-ground laws lower the likelihood of any gun-related violence.

What we do and don’t know about how to prevent gun violence

Mass shootings may be the hardest to address but unfortunately, present the greatest visibility of the impact of gun violence and thus the greatest opportunity to raise awareness and discuss solutions.

Again, we as a nation have to find common ground that represents the public interest and public will to reduce gun violence and not the agenda of a special interest group that spends $millions to "buy" our elected representatives.

We have not been very successful and the fault lies with all parties, including gun control advocates. The hope is that these young students will have the passion and persistence to keep the issue alive until sensible and comprehensive solutions are put in place.

 

subscribed, this seems like a very interesting thread

 

Why gun violence is a public health and public safety issue....just a sampling from the last month.

5-year-old killed 7-year-old brother after finding gun while looking for Easter candy, family says

3-year-old boy accidentally shot his 9-year-old relative after he found gun, police say

Man shot in head on Facebook Live as friends played with guns, cops say

Frightened homeowner mistakenly shoots real estate photographer she thought was intruder

 

The UK is regulating silverware in an attempt to control knife killings, which have replaced guns as the leading weapon of choice. Maybe they'll realize the futility by the time they ban stones... of course teen obesity might go down.

Meanwhile, in the U.S., you stand a far, far better chance of being pasted by a distracted teen driver, texting a buddy and you'd likely not have time to react when the car veers into your lane. You literally watch your death scene unfold in the last split seconds of your life. Facts nobody talks about because we'd have to go back to shuttling little Johnny to soccer.

 

Sorry but the whataboutism just annoys the piss out of me.
There are a hundred other more likely ways I could die then get shot living in Alaska.
I keep a bug out kit in case of a major earthquake, with 4 weeks of food water, a water purifying kit, first aid kit, the whole nine yards.
My kids and I have a meeting place picked out, etc.
What are the chances of another 9.2 quake hitting us?
I don't know but I lived through the last one and intend to be prepared.
Making the appropriate plans and regulations for buildings etc. in case we have another such quake makes sense.
Sure there were only 139 people killed and it has cost millions of dollars in changes to the way we do business in this state but I would say it is worth it, just in case.
Can we not think the same way about guns, a problem we created as apposed to something that could happen pretty much at random.

 

Sorry you're annoyed, but it's a real thing in the lower 49. Part of the real solution and the real solution for the opiate epidemic; not having ininstitutions and the willingness to send people to live in them while they get treatment. We have far bigger fish to fry, but every time the same old shit happens and focus is lost completely. Then again, you and I can't slap an elderly person into a nursing home just because they don't appear to meet our standards of taking care of oneself. There are thousands of examples of freedom over safety every day. America wasn't founded for safety...

 

As the wealthiest nation in the world, why shouldnt both gun violence (36,000+ deaths/yr) and opioid overdoses (42,000+ deaths/yr) be treated as public health priorities with comprehensive remedies to attempt to significantly reduce those preventable deaths? Of the sensible gun control remedies suggested as part of a comprehensive solution to gun violence, which do you think restrict freedom?

 

The ghost of Reagan and Scalia emerge in liberal Massachusetts

A Reagan Judge Just Upheld an Assault Weapons Ban—Using a Scalia Opinion

A funny bit of good news.

 

I remember @omega posting about Sovereign Citizens and how they were really fucking dangerous.
Not only was the crazy shithead who killed the people in the Waffle House one of them but he'd had his guns taken away only to have his father give them back.
To put it mildly, I am fucking appalled.
There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.
We are just lucky that a very brave man stepped up and took the bastards gun away.

 

EXACTLY!!! No law abiding citizen has ever had their guns go off on killing sprees, yet take them away from criminals and the criminally insane, and they will find a way to kill anyway! Gun bans are stupid; instead, report prohibited people and get them into the system! We trot them straight from court to a jail cell, we should be typing them into NICS at the same time! EVERY time the system says anything but "procede" the ATF and FBI should dispatch local law enforcement to "interview" the potential buyer. THIS is how the laws on the books should work. Banning guns is only stating your preference for how you die is something other than a firearm. You can't take the evil out of a murderous person, and I think Trudeau is hopefully finding that out.

Stay safe

J

 

While incidents like this most recent in Nashville or Parkland or Sutherland Springs (TX) or Las Vegas are the most visible, most gun violence is not the result of "criminals and criminally insane" but the result of suicide, family violence, accidents* (including children as shooters and victims) and incidents among friends/acquaintances.

* Toddler shoots pregnant mom while playing with father's loaded gun

Mother accidentally shoots, kills 2-year-old daughter: Police

Much of the gun violence is preventable with sensible and comprehensive solutions that include greater regulations (not bans) of firearms, along with greater focus on mental health issues , community crime prevention (including gang prevention), and other disciplines.

 

For those commenting on how 'there are plenty of laws', Tennessee doesn't have a law have a law to keep Reinking from having all the guns he wants.
Only if he wants to CC, will they do a background check.
His guns were taken away when he lived in Illinois.
This is the fucking problem in this country, we need consistent laws all across the country from one end to the other.

"Patchwork” of U.S. laws allowed Waffle House shooter to keep his guns

 

I'm posting the following because it ties into gun laws and how they can be circumvented. And are by the United States military branches.

Devin Patrick Kelley, the shooter in Sutherland Springs, never should've been allowed to purchase firearms, and probably should've been in prison. His history of violence while a member of the US Air Force was not properly reported to the FBI by the USAF.

Texas church gunman escaped mental health facility in 2012 after threatening military superiors

The Air Force says it failed to follow procedures, allowing Texas church shooter to obtain firearms


To make matters worse investigations after the shooting show the US military branches have a history of not reporting, or mis-reporting, service personnel who should be red-flagged.

US military consistently fails to report domestic violence to gun database, senators say


To make matters much worse the US military knew about the omissions per investigations done prior to the Sutherland Springs shooting. And in many cases the omissions were intentional, made as a matter of policy, they were not accidental oversights.

https://media.defense.gov/2015/Feb/12/2001713470/-1/-1/1/DODIG-2015-081.pdf


I have great respect for those who choose to serve in the military, be it simply to gain some benefits, or as a career. I also believe that veterans deserve benefits and some special considerations. Unfortunately it seems that the military has a "Green Shield" in place which allows a fair number of soldiers with serious problems to return to civilian life without a paper trail.

Edit: The news stories regarding the military branches failures died down very quickly. It's almost as though everyone involved, including the news media, wants to keep what should be major news, hidden.