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Legality of the US Declaration of Independence

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Remixer, Oct 19, 2011.

  1. Eddie Getting Tilted

    When you say "terrorist actions" you have to be more specific.
     
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, I don't know.... Blowing shit up. Attacking government buildings, telecommunication buildings, airports. Chechen-style stuff.

    Texas would probably have to get pretty dirty, because I don't know how else it could win anything in a conventional way.
     
  3. Eddie Getting Tilted

    You kidding me? You don't know Texas very well do you? There is so much oil money that State. Billionaires and millionaires with massive weapons stashes. Most people in that state are armed to teeth. There are several military bases as well. I think Texas could put up one helluva fight.
     
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    At first.

    Now back to the question.
     
  5. DamnitAll

    DamnitAll Wait... what?

    Location:
    Central MD

    That would be the day....
     
  6. uncle phil

    uncle phil Moderator Emeritus (and sorely missed) Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    pasco county
    getting back to the OP, i could be wrong but isn't it simply a declaration - what's legal/illegal about that?
     
  7. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition
     
  8. uncle phil

    uncle phil Moderator Emeritus (and sorely missed) Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    pasco county
    understood, grump, but it would appear that GB did not perceive that document as being seditious at the time...

    and, i've been wrong before...
     
  9. Eddie Getting Tilted

    The first sentence of the wiki article refers to the "legal authority." What legal authority? The only laws that apply to the colonists are the ones they agree to.
     
  10. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    The legal authority at the time having been the British Empire...
     
  11. Eddie Getting Tilted

    So if the British can declare themselves the legal authority, why can't the colonists declare themselves the legal authority?
     
  12. That's what the Revolutionary War was all about.
     
  13. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    Ask the good folks of South Carolina c. 1861 how their Secession Declaration worked out for them.

    To a certain extent legality depends purely on the ability to enforce it. The state enforces its will upon the people who can either conceed to the state or take up arms. That's the entire point of the Declaration of Independence (and most of the Bill of Rights), but it only mattered because the colonists were able to back it up on the battlefield.
     
  14. Eddie Getting Tilted

    Bingo
     
  15. the_jazz

    the_jazz Accused old lady puncher

    It's self-evident to any Poly-Sci 101 student on their first day of class, Eddie. "War is simply politics by other means", per von Clausewitz.

    The legality of the DofI is in the preamble - "We the People...", "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", etc. It's a legal document citing "natural law". Pretty radical at the time, but it's clearly meant to justify the following war that you just "bingo'd", Eddie.
     
  16. izz

    izz New Member

    Location:
    Earth
    Really? Is that what you think? We kicked ass and won? Imagine if you will, a British Colonel, who leads British colonists (the traitors), against those he pledged his allegiance with (the crown). Two British factions in the revolt, nothing American about that. Stay with me now, cause reality is about to get uncomfortable. I'll give the short version. And before anyone tries to argue, I assure you I'm right, so don't bother. The crown outsmarted the colonists. They used George Washington to do it. He and his cronies pulled a fast one through the creation of the Constitution. The same British Colonel who led the revolt, turn around and used that carefully drafted document to tax the crap out of those very people. The people bought into it under the intentional assumption it was created for the protection of the people. But it's "We the People" not "You the People", as in "The People vs You" in court cases. It was made in secret by English & British assholes who puzzled it in code that only they would understand. Patrick Henry knew something was up, and he was right.

    Before anyone tries to argue, use your intelligence to think about this first. The British Kings colors were "Red White & Blue". The 1st American flag was the Grand Union (British ensign w/ 13 stripes for 13 British colonies). The flag today still has 13 stripes in the Kings colors. Washington claimed to be the 1st President, but he was the 9th. He was only 1st under the Con-stitutional scheme.

    If anyone doesn't believe these facts, then by all means, explain why there's 3 Offices of President, and see if you can figure out why Washington took the oath under Article II, not III, which is the real Office of President that has never been filled. Figure that out and you'll see the truth. If your still in doubt, look up the Corporate country origin for the United States of America Limited filing. That's right... It's say's United Kingdom.

    We as Americans look stupid to the rest of the world as it is. Lets fix it. Bless others like I just did you.

    The Constitution was not written for us, or to protect us. Only people who have never read it and don't understand it will claim it gives them rights. The whole damn thing was, and is, nothing more than one big ass giant tax and property scam against us, the People, as in the Majority in control. Majority rules. If the Majority decides to stop paying taxes today, guess what? No one could do a damn thing about it. The IRS would have to kick rocks and find another way to leech through life. No law or rule is above the Majority rule. Period.

    That's why racism and religion still exist. Keeping us separated keeps them rich and in power. Unity is an Elitists worst nightmare. We aint gota love each other, we just gota learn to work in unison when shit calls for it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  17. Lindy

    Lindy Moderator Staff Member

    Location:
    Nebraska
    Just in case you didn't know, a large majority pay little or no income tax. The top 25% of earners pay over 86% of federal income taxes. The 75% majority pays only about 13% of taxes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. POPEYE

    POPEYE Very Tilted

    Location:
    Tulsa
    90 % of Oklahomans qualify for state and federal Assistance.
     
  19. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    A more effective strategy would be a national general strike. Having many among the 75% strike across the nation would strike fear into the government and their patrons that make up the 25%.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. izz

    izz New Member

    Location:
    Earth
    Yes. You're correct. Thank You. But it seems the context and point is missed.

    George Washington used the Constitution to usurp power for unlawful tax collection and property theft. By taking oath under article II, he created a Presidential dictatorship. One needs to understand certain facts to understand the scheme.

    There are 2 United States, 3 Offices of President and 2 Constitutions.

    The "United States of America" refers to the 50 states respectively, while the "United States" refers to the federal government. The "Office of President" isn't "Office of the President of the United States" nor "Office of the President of the United States of America."

    The controlling Office factors are the "Constitution" and "Articles of Confederation." Which document and under what article an oath is taken designates the Office. (The gold fringe on the flag is representative of the standing Presidents Office at any given time and has nothing to do with popular ignorant sovereign citizen theories of admiralty/maritime law, in court or otherwise.)

    The Constitution of 1787 refers to “Constitution of the United States.” The other referred as "this Constitution." The "Office of President" has no tax power in it's controlling document.

    Congress has, not executive. By taking oath under article II, Washington filled an Office reserved for an appointee by "Office of President," essentially killing "this Constitution."

    That Constitution specifically allows Office of the President of the United States of America to be elected through Electoral College. He can then take oath under Article VI “to support this Constitution” and fill "Office of President of the United States of America" under the Articles of Confederation and "Office of President" under Article II Section 1 Clause 5.

    But nothing in 1787 oaths are binding. Until "Office of President" is properly filled, "this Constitution" does not bind. The other 2 Offices can abuse power without fear of treason charges, as one bound by oath could not.

    The Declaration of Independance was meant to prevent what these schemes accomplish (e.g. eliminating British monarchy) But the "D of I" is not a legal document, so it holds no power of law. The idea was great for common people, but the English Colonel of British armies, with his British masonic cronies, destroyed the nobel notions of it's intent.

    The Constitution was methodically drafted in secret with carefully planned intentions designed to confuse and use illusions of rights and freedoms.

    "We the People" is not you and I. The Constitutional rights of "We the People" are for the government. Next time (or if) you get a traffic summons, it reads... "The People vs Your Name." We have taken the burdens of others without consent or knowledge and pay extra for it.

    Corporate tax requirements were shifted on us, and they now pay nothing. We pay everything because they run everything. The United States is a corporation. The people, as you point out, who don't pay taxes, are likely invested in US corporate trusts. Their taxes also shift to us. If someone took the time to actually do numbers, things wouldn't add up. The amount of tax generated is probably 10 to 30x more than what's claimed. Maybe even more.

    This, in my mind, is why the "debt clock" moves like it does 24/7. You can see it online. Someone's on a shopping spree, having a grand time on us.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017