Occupy Wall Street

Your understanding of the history of protest movements is colored by your rigid narrow ideology and the resulting revisions views of events that took place that changed the country.

Many of the most significant socioeconomic changes in the US started with a small percentage of the population chanting slogans and holding signs (with delusions of grandeur?) -- the women's suffrage movement, the labor movement, the civil rights movement, the anti-war (Vietnam) movement, the environmental movement.....all of which started from the left. Coincidence?

And then there is your earlier suggesting that a non-violent movement wont accomplish anything. More revisionist history. Were your asleep during the entire year of 1989 when the iron curtain fell across Eastern Europe? Starting with Lech Welesa and the solidarity labor movement in Poland, Vaclec Havel and the writers/artists and the velvet revolution in the Czech Republic, Barbel Bohley and other women of the East German peace movement......

 

I don't think that was the point the segment was trying to make. The strange people are standing up and speaking out, whereas everyone else is sitting at home doing nothing. At least that's how I took it.

 

Awesome BvH. That's what I am talking about. You might not be able to be there 24/7 but you can make your presence felt. Sadly, there won't be any opportunity to do the same here.

As for the cynicism coming out of Edward, things do change when people take to the streets. What matters is numbers. This is not, despite its origins, just a handful of people on Wall Street. It is happening nationwide (heck, it's global). Change will happen if the numbers are big enough. The thing to note is that there are many people (of all political stripes) who agree with the message that Corporate America is getting away with leaving the "giant pile of shit in the middle of the crowded living room". This is very close to the tipping point where things will swing in favour of the protest.

Sadly, the change that's being talked about is the change that many hoped would come from Obama. He has been a huge let down on this front.

What is needed is a restoration of regulation to the banking sectors. Those who cry for less regulation haven't been paying attention.
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The point, as I saw it, is that so-called normal folks are not comfortable associating themselves with the strange-looking (and acting) elements of the protests. They are paying attention and even agree with much of what is being said, but when they see the "freaks" they don't identify.

It's not that they are doing nothing. They are listening and they are thinking.

As I said above, things are getting closer to the tipping point. If things keep going the way they have been, public opinion will shift and galvanize. Change will come the same way it did with the movements that redux list above.

 

The only movement that will change anything is one represented by leaders who are prepared to take on this nation's problems. A few thousand liberals screaming at the 1% ain't gonna amount to squat, imho.

 

Eddie, you are correct. It will be the elected officials that make the changes. And it isn't going to be a few thousand Liberals on the streets that will make the final move.

Elected officials are not permanent. We have these things called elections (FYI, it's the elected part of elected officials). Those officials like to stay in power. IF (notice it's a big if) this movement reaches the tipping point, public opinion will have shifted and change of the sort this movement is seeking will become political mandate. It will not come easily. Wall Street will fight hard to maintain the status quo. But ending Vietnam didn't come easily. Getting Universal suffrage didn't come easy (can you see a pattern here).

These issues are not strictly a left or Liberal cause. The tea party, a decidedly right, conservative movement, once shared these same complaints with Government and Wall Street. Then they got hung up on issues like debt, same sex marriage and Obama's birth certificate. It's not too late for many in the Tea Party to see that, despite how they look, the Occupy Wall Street folks are incensed about many of the same issues.

There is a lot of common ground in the middle of this...



Of course the protests could collapse. Winter is coming. But the longer this carries on... the less inclined I am to think Wall Street isn't going to come out of this unscathed.

 

Charlatan, may I add nothing good such as the American Revolution, the US Civil War, workers' rights, unions, the EPA/FDA, the downfall of the USSR, some rights in China (spurned on by their embarrassment of Tienanmen Square), the end of Apartheid, India's freedom from Britain (led by Gandhi)... all led to many arrests and a majority sitting back watching and waiting to choose sides once they saw who would win. In the process all gained world wide attention and support usually from other more progressive (NOT the Leftist type "progressive") and industrious countries.
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There is a lot of common ground Charlatan. As I was a Tea Partier, but once the Becks, Cunninghams, Hannitys and Faux News took over it became what it originally was fighting. My fear is that the Occupy groups will start taking up with the Micheal Moores and the extreme far left. I choose to believe myself to be around the middle of your chart, I place myself in the word "LAWS" A little more left of center believing that Government is still too big and powerful but they are that way because the large corporations need for them to be for their protection and continued monopolistic ideals and business practices.

 

We're barely into 2012 election madness. Based on national polling, this issue is now a legitimate concern for a majority of Americans and I predict it will be much more than a talking point as campaigns get into full swing. It may be the absolute game changer. Whether or not OWS gains more steam and holds out through the winter, the issue has taken hold in mind of the American public. Politicians who choose to denounce it will not gain a vote outside of the faithful who will vote for them anyway. Those who choose to ignore it will find themselves ignored. Those who embrace it and offer solutions are likely to come out on top.

 

I tend to agree, the TP and the OWS have awakened people and now answers better flow from the politicians. The ONLY things I feel could truly hurt the OWS movement is a far left take over as we saw the far right use the TP, bad weather and poor organization. They are getting the press the TP got and they don't need Micheal Moore or other far leftists fracturing the movement so that the right can use them to divide and conquer. The weather, well if they bundle up and prepare they'll be ok. Poor organization the OWS in NYC on Wall Street seem pretty organized, the ones here in Ohio seem to be getting there. The Occupy groups have a lot of weight on their shoulders. They can't break or fracture, because they are smart enough to know that's why in some areas they are being left alone. The 1% is waiting for fractures and to make the movement look bad and thus how can you support them? They've tried to fracture it in some cities with the anti-semitism rumors (no proof), the rape claim in Cleveland (I'm sorry as cold and as bad as this sounds who waits 2 days after they are raped to file a report and with a group of people around why didn't she scream for help? And why would a woman climb into a tent alone with a man she didn't know and no one else has seen or found pictures of?) The rumors are saying she was a college professor (at age 19? really), mentally retarded (again really?). So in the end they are trying to smear the movement in the press but so far knock wood nothing is sticking.

 

clearly the problem has been throughout the history of non-violent revolution that the people who have participated have not been quick enough to make sure to everyone on the streets could pass the tests of conservative-acceptable good looks and sartorial standards before having the temerity to do something.

 

Well, liberal heavy hitters Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Alec Baldwin, and Al Sharpton, to name a few, have all made appearances at the protest in support of the movement but none have attempted to "fracture" it. I think they understand its fragility and as none of them can rightly claim to be "one of the 99%" they surely realize that any attempt at undue influence would draw comparisons to the Koch Bros. Say what you will about them, they are smart people and very much in favor of the movement's grass roots nature. I'm not very worried about it all, really.

 

I know Micheal Moore has done a few things, but the others listed I didn't know. While I can respect that, I just think it's a catch 22, the media won't take it seriously until we have a "Hanoi Jane" Fonda in the ranks. You need people that can get the press to listen, because unfortunately, the media is owned by Wall Street and they will not slice their own throats. I just don't really want what happened to the TP to happen to the OWS. Having well known divisive people start being the "torch bearers and spokespeople", like the TP did with Hannity, Beck, Levine and so on. I knew the TP was in trouble when I saw Pat Robertson praising the efforts. I have come to respect Darryl Hannah, she at least goes out and gets dirty and stands with the people.

It's like Occupy Cleveland for awhile debated having a local non Clear Channel radio personality come and make a speech. To me it's one thing if they are there and actually protesting THEN volunteering, it's totally something different when they "volunteer" to speak and you are expected to pamper them. Then it seems it's all about ego boosting and to be honest there are better speakers among the demonstrators there already, none of which may have the "celebrity, name recognition" status but they are damned good at speaking and making their points. Especially locally, people see their neighbors or someone they can identify with speaking (and not trying to sell their next movie or tv show or documentary or radio station) they may be more apt to truly listen to what is being said.

Just my 2 cents.

 

I read something about OWS today, right below the articles on Lindsay Lohan's court appearance and Christina Aquilera's new designer jeans. I guess America's attention span for shouting people holding cardboard signs is about 8 hours.

 

They don't have numbers to cause any real disruption. There's more cops watching than there are protesters protesting. Maybe it's time for the fringe, liberal youth of American to head back to the drawing board.

 

If you're going to achieve victory with fewer numbers you need superior firepower...which these kids don't have. I doubt any of these kids has even held a real gun.