How much government involvement do you want in your life?

Simply, if government was actually 'by the people, for the people', then it would serve citizens well. Because of corporate mentality dominating our economy, it is now molded into the shape of their idol, money. Social services and organizations, ect., are not profitable, so priority level for them is squat. The imperialism age saw to that.

 

It's a delicate balance. Some people believe there is nothing the government does that the private sector can't do better. The best counterargument I can think of is that the private sector wanted to sell Thalidomide in the United States. The government stopped them from doing so.

 

The tricky bit is that there is a lot of misinformation out there, and the media, corporations, and politicians are all trying to serve their financial interests it seems like. Do we trust the government scientists when they say that ethyl-mercury or aluminum that is now used in vaccines to make them cheaper and faster to produce and distribute is safe? It isn't the individual scientists who I believe are corrupt, but the leaders, the research projects that are picked by management, and the overseeing of the results prior to publishing.

Adjuvants | Vaccine Safety | CDC

The Case Against Aluminum in Vaccines!

Thimerosal in Vaccines

http://www.webmd.com/children/vaccines/news/20080130/vaccine-mercury-leaves-blood-fast

 

I think the government should stay out of the personal lifes of people (with some exceptions, like abuse, etc), but at the same time should provide everyone with the basic means to survive, in other words should provide a basic income.

 

little to none - I think they should be greatly minimized and substantially downsized from their current bloated condition

I'd like them to manage federal issues and tasks like maintaining and improving military might and, subsequently, use that capacity for national security (and, under NO CIRCUMSTANCE, am I implying that the US military might EVER be used in any way in an antagonist role towards Americans)

They should serve the US Constitution and only serve it as holy writ, not spend their time and our money trying to change or avoid the laws therein to serve their personal and political agendas in an effort to use the inherent power and influence of their positions in the federal government to force and/or influence the states and their citizens to serve their way of thinking and steal our freedoms

They should maintain and improve on our infrastructure and work towards our overall sustainability in areas such as natural resources, energy requirements, border security, and outright and straightforward maintaining of the laws set forth in the constitution

Congress should stop blowing off their constitutional obligations to arm and train active, citizen-based military militias in each state - they should stop ignoring the rights of each state to have a well trained and armed militias that are funded and maintained by the federal government

Instead of wielding our military might to serve unnecessary agendas and to hold our most destructive source of power as a chess piece that is used to empower the few in the federal government to intimidate and have control of the only fully trained and armed military forces in the country

Our federal government is supposed to supply equivalent military training, equipment, and power to the citizens of our country by providing for each state to have it's own military might

This is fundamental to our democracy and it is a fucking travesty how our federal government has conveniently ignored their obligations to empower the very citizens they are supposed to be serving

They have stolen our tax dollars to build one of the worlds most formidable federal military forces (which serves almost no purpose in the support and empowerment of our states and citizens and only serves the needs of the few in our federal government)

They are supposed to build, train, and arm state militias that would give the citizenship the same might so that we can both serve our country when needed, and, more importantly, have the might to overthrow an out of control or unconstitutional federal government

I do believe that if our military forces were instructed to act with force against our citizens, that our military men and women would refuse and would choose to serve the citizens and our constitution rather than the narcissistic, arrogant, and ignorant federal politicians

but the elephant in the room is a fucking ginormous one in that, with the right conditions and circumstances, their could come a day in our history when our military forces are influenced or coerced or forced to attack the citizens of this country and, if it happens, the Feds not empowering state military forces while subsequently stealing away our rights to even own firearms, Ammo, and weapons of many kinds will end in a swift and apocalyptic massacre of our citizenship - and with the military might that the Feds wield, they could wipe every man, woman, and child from the face of our country in a few short months

The Feds should NOT provide financial assistance to ANY citizen who hasn't reached retirement age or is otherwise truly unable to earn a wage by means of birth abnormalities or people who are seriously injured in the service in our federal and state military services

There should never be any type of money given to any citizen who is able to contribute to the needs of the state they call home

If you are able bodied and are currently picking up government financial assistance for your kids, your housing, or your refusal to work, you should not be receiving it without earning it

No matter a persons "hardships" they can, in almost every circumstance, be put to use to contribute to their state and most everyone, no matter their affliction or disabilities, has self worth and, subsequently, can be of worth in contributing to their state, their communities, or their neighbors and their own families

If you are alive because you refuse to try to be of benefit to your fellow citizens, then you should have 2 options only:

- get off your ass and find a way to earn your groceries and add value to your state and/or community and earn your keep

- spend a bit of time digging a hole, then lay down in it and starve to death - the rest of us will fill your hole once you have passed on

if our federal government stopped 90% of its welfare state activities, our country would experience a never before seen level of growth and prosperity when everyone was all of a sudden adding value as opposed to absorbing and wasting it


Sent from my better-than-yours, Cupertino-based, greatest device ever

 

Here's where it gets complicated.
I work for a government agency.
It is both state and federally funded.
The Division of Vocational Rehabilitation helps people who have disabilities get back into the workforce.
We work with people who are deaf, blind, have been hurt at work and can no longer do what they have been doing all their life, have metal issues so they've never been able to hold a job, and many other kinds of issues too numerous to list, get the tools they work and contribute.
This costs money and in some cases, a lot of money.
We are in fact one of the few agencies that pays for itself because for every dollar spent when we get someone off SSI, SSDI, Medicare, comes back when they get into a job where they are covered by the employer and paying taxes.
It's complicated, there are huge rule books to go with it.
We have to intrude in the peoples lives a lot, to a point sometimes where they decide it just isn't worth it.
Although it is required for states to fund it by the ADA some will do the absolute minimum so that people barely get any services and then only the most severely disabled, when just a slightly higher level of funding would bring in considerably more federal money. (Fuck you Scott Walker.)
Unless you need us there is a good chance you won't know anything about DVR or how important we are in peoples lives.
When it comes to getting thing accomplished, I've seen people drop everything and get a client needed services in a matter of hours that would have probably taken weeks or months for other agencies.
Every time I hear people bad mouthing government I want to point out there are plenty of agencies doing great work, just because they haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

Our federal and state governments are so impossibly huge and incomprehensibly complex in their subtleties, differences, state and federal relationship networks, financing, duties, and bear an almost impossible to grasp level of inconsistencies from state to state and the laws governing them…and then there is the human aspect in, as you stated, two offices of the same agency in the same state will possess cavernous differences in employee behavior and quality as well as wonderfully efficient management vs. complete uselessness along with crippling inefficiency and wastefulness

And therein lies my very point with regard to the need for a government to be small and efficient and to be run with the same productivity and consistency goals as any for-profit business in our capitalist system

Our governmental waste and haphazard management and organization is an utter travesty and that only serves to make obtaining any benefit from the efforts of caring people and ideas either utter misery and not worth the hassle or simply unobtainable to those it's intended to benefit

Why an entire country with an extensive history of success in the application of a capitalist system doesn't use it to make its government more beneficial to its citizens and less wasteful of our tax dollars is beyond me


Sent from my better-than-yours, Cupertino-based, greatest device ever

 

I've worked for large corporations and I have to say they are every bit as wasteful and stupidly run (if not more so) as government.
The important thing to remember about government is that it has two priorities that businesses do not, it has to serve the public (not make money) and it has to be accountable for every penny it spends.
There are also a ton of regulations and accountability factors set in that make it more complicated as well.
Very few businesses have a code of conduct that you have to sign every year while government agencies do.
Sure most employees don't think about it much until they have to take the training.
Yes, we have to take training in ethics, diversity and how to be decent human beings, something I think many businesses lack.
Like I said there are plenty of agencies where your tax dollars are doing amazing work, you just don't know about them.

 

@redravin

Huh? - are you trying to convince me that thriving, growing, profitable, large corporations that exist in a capitalist economic system, employ hundreds or thousands of citizens and are able to not only sustain their business costs and provide a huge and diverse portion of people the means to not only live sustainable lives and provide for their families, afford housing, automobiles, and put food on the table, as well as providing the means for all of their employees to add value to the US and local economies and businesses, not to mention that the wasteful and irresponsible evil corporation is also providing sufficient enough wages to also enable all of these Americans to do their part to contribute to the country as a whole by allowing them to meet their own personal tax obligations that are the very foundation for the very existence of the entire federal and state governmental systems and are the reason you are able to have your gainful employment with a government agency

Yet, this wasteful corporation is also profitable and obviously has been carefully and skillfully managed and is obviously held accountable to an intense degree, otherwise it would not have survived it's formative first few years nor would it have lasted as long as it has or grew to the it's status as a major positive contributor to so many people's lives for so long while serving as a massive contributor to every community in which it operates, all the while providing our government with a massive cut of their profits through their own corporate tax payments and the massive amounts of taxes they contribute on a daily business just in their operations and the supplies, shipping, energy useage, and vast investments in land and development, company vehicle purchases and maintenance of their facilities, absurd money towards plane tickets and hotel accommodations, etc, etc, etc

Yet, in the same breath, and for the second time in as many different posts, you make it a point to let me know that there are so many government agencies that most Americans will never realize or come to know that they even exist

Are you listening to the utter fallacy of your words/comments?

You are actually making my point for me and I'm beginning to wonder if you feel that your grasp and understanding of capitalism and business operations, and profitability and sustainability within a capitalist system, and the fundamentals effects and widespread positive economic impact of a growing, profitable corporation has on our economy and the very existence of our government, and the FACT, not opinion or partisan debate, but the undeniable FACT that, just as sure as death and taxes, a taxpayer funded governmental system operating in a growing capitalist system always is far more of a taker and consumer and a source of negative growth on the economy

well run business are huge value-adding entities that are the foundation of our capitalist economy and literally provide our government with the means to sustain itself and allow it to grow and prosper - without that wasteful massive corporate entity that can't be bothered to employ any accountant or educated and trained financial men and women and therefore, according to you, is able to be such a powerful and important positive influence our national economic condition while just haphazardly ignoring and wasting the money the business is bringing in and refusing to put in place any system of financial checks and balances

Our government is like an Italian extortion syndicate in that they spend with very minimal oversight and the money they spend they do little to nothing to earn…they don't have to work for their pay and they don't have to concern themselves with sustaining a profit-based business model because, no matter what, they get their "cut", no matter how they perform or if they are avoiding the pitfalls that a profit-based business must deal with

things like keeping costs down, making wise choices when it comes to their operational costs and scrutinizing every financial decision, being continually innovative and ethically responsible, and making very important and impactful decisions with regard to their obligations to their American citizen employees and the survivability of them and their families

The government operates with almost none of these constraints and gets paid the same wage no matter their performance and gets its paycheck irregardless of even total wastefulness and utter failure to even meet any type of goals

I'm done pointing out the glaringly obvious flaws in your arguments because, for some reason, you seem enamored with the idea of us having a vast wasteful black hole of a government that is SO disturbingly irresponsible with it's operations that it is, according to your positive opinion of this, they have created and established so much redundancy and such a high level of irresponsible spending that they need so many agencies all over the country that will not even be used by the majority of our population, yet are sitting there costing us tons of money with virtually no benefit to the American citizenship whatsoever

according to what you are saying, the large, profitable business that is being run efficiently and is obviously managed with skill by an incredibly talented group of American citizens…citizens who are thriving because of their talent, smarts, ingenuity, and elbow grease

And the idea of continuing to debate this with your position being one of support for a socialist government that fuels it's unabashed waste and gluttony while driving it's citizens to use their talents elsewhere because, no matter how well they perform or how hard they work, they will never, ever benefit from it because you want to get rid of our capitalist economy and join Cuba back in the stone ages

Well, you are free to have an opinion and have a constitutionally protected right to voice it

But I'm done listening and we are such polar opposites when it comes to our financial beliefs and, I believe, our level of understanding of our economy and how a capitalist system functions, that I feel I'm wasting my breath


Sent from my better-than-yours, Cupertino-based, greatest device ever

 

I didn't insult you or your opinion, so it is unnessary for you to insult me and mine.
I just attempted to point out that there were aspects of government you haven't looked at or bothered to understand.
To spend most of your post trying to ram home the wonders of business and the evils of government misses my point entirely.
Yes, there are horribly wasteful government agencies and yes, there are very successful businesses.

But as I pointed out they are two different animals.
Business has an entirely different function than government and completely different priorities.
You can't run government like a business because it does not have the same end goal.
For example, making the national parks profitable is not the function of government.
Keeping the national parks for future generations to have and enjoy is.

Many of the 'wildly' successful companies use government to get what they need to be that way.
In order to pay the horrible low wages and pitiful insurance Wal-Mart has their people apply for government benefits, even keeping the forms in the breakroom.
They also demand tax cuts and road access from local governments to put in their stores.
These are just some of the ways they have clawed their way to the top at our expense.

You see government has nothing to do with the capitalist system.
America has one sure but just like there needs to be a separation of church and state there needs to be a separation of government and financial operating system.
There are basic services that need to be handled in every country no matter what the financial system and it is up to the government to do it.
Just because you haven't needed them up till now doesn't mean it won't happen sometime in the future.

Government is also, the snowplow drivers, the teachers, the cops and people like me.
Please get to know how things work a bit before you condemn us.

 

{without reading any of the responses so far}



I'll gladly pay extra taxes for healthcare and education. And things like paved roads and the FDA. Beyond that....stay the fuck outta my life.

 

There are some things that can probably only be regulated by government.
Auto safety
Highway safety ...highway standards
Food safety and inspection
Medicines
Products Tool standars for safety
Imports checked for quality and "contamination"
Water quality Sanitation
Worker safety OSHA
Professional Licensing
Air quality
Travel safety Highway Airline Train Truck and Bus
Education standards.....for all states
This is off the top of my head.....not that I think government should get involved in YOUR PERSONAL LIFE..Your RELIGION and YOUR BODY, should NOT be under any GOVERNMENT CONTROL
I'm sure I'll think of more....
The Government has made some very important additions to especially newer vehicles.....would we have seat belts, Air bags, Crush zones, better braking, cleaner running vehicles with better gas mileage.....(by the way that CORN CRAP HAS TO GO) ..etc...etc, if not for the regulations what would manufacturers do.....



Never attribute to malice what is perfectly well explained by stupidity.