End of an Avtomat Era?

SOURCE

Here is a solid primer on assault rifles, in case you're confused as to what one might be.

As far as the article?

Well, goddamn. I never thought I'd see the Russians move away from the Kalashnikov in my lifetime. There have been a number of design innovations and resultant prototypes pushed out over the last decade. The 100-series AK, specifically the AK-107, with its balanced action, 3-round burst option and side rail for a much-needed red dot optic, seemed like a solid contender despite it failing in military trials (actual gun performance vs. politics, who knows?). The AK-100, however, is still an AK and has the same basic design features of the AK-74M (modernized AK-74, current issue).

Let's talk about that:

The current issue AK-74M series (5.45x39mm) is a very solid infantry weapon but horribly antiquated in comparison to the small arms of "enemy" countries such as those in Europe (Germany's G36) or even the United States with its relatively old Armalite AR-15 (M4). The problems aren't necessarily design flaws, merely that the way an infantryman handles and shoots his rifle has changed tremendously in the last two decades.

I see the two major issues with the AK-74M being the awkward controls and a lack of a standard issue combat optic.

The AK-74, despite being cheap and rugged, isn't as user friendly as other modern rifles. It does not have a thumb-activated selector switch (like the M4); it instead has a long lever on the right side of the weapon that requires significant manipulation to use (significant being more than a thumb). The magazine release also requires the user to index the magazine with their support hand (or an incoming magazine) and isn't as fluid as a push-button release such as found on the M4. These things aren't win or lose in a gunfight, but they are small advantages you can give a shooter.

Combat optics are an absolute necessity these days. The iron sights on the AK-74 are mediocre at best (the entire AK series has suffered with this) and the lack of a standard issue optic (red dot or illuminated-reticle zoom) have made the rifle less accurate in the eyes of users in comparison to weapons like the British L-85 and its SUSAT scope or the G36 and its zoom / dot combo. The Russians have red dot (Kobra) and zoom optics (PSO series) but these things are only useful as a force multiplier if most of your infantry force has them. The US picked up on this many years ago with the M68 CCO (Aimpoint red dot). The advantages of combat optics are clear: you can shoot much faster at greater distances with less focus on fundamentals in a wider range of lighting conditions. There is no down side to using a red dot aside from additional cost and the need to change batteries occasionally.

What do you all think?

Me? I'm thinking I can't wait for them to import all those delicious used AK-74s. I know Remy will buy a dozen.

 

About the M4 vs AK-47/74 thing, I've talked to numerous US military and veteran Northern Alliance soldiers.

The Americans: M4 GOOD. AK BAD.
The Afghans: M4 BAD. AK GOOD.

The M4 is seen as very unreliable in the field, especially with the kind of dust and mud we have here in Afghanistan. Any thoughts on that?

EVERYONE loved the G36, though. The Germans here have them but won't give them to anyone, for some reason.

 

I'm totally not getting in that tired old argument here.

There are entire websites dedicated to that debate.

Huge circle jerk since nobody has much experience.

This thread, however, is for talk of the AK-74 rifle.

...

Your info on the G36 is a little off. Several groups in the US have them.

The G36 isn't all that and a bag of chips but it is a pretty solid rifle.

Said blaster is produced by Heckler & Koch and they're pompous dicks.

 

I meant here in Afghanistan, Plan.

 

Yeah, I was confused by your wording and went with the bigger picture. Why would a foreign country "give" its fancy weapons to the Afghans?

The US gave a bunch of clunky Sigma pistols to the ANP back in '06, IIRC. The Russians have already sent several planes loaded with AKs to A-stan.

It is a smarter move to give the ANA/ANP weapons they are already familiar with instead of some whizbang gadgetry that'll be broken in 10 minutes.

Having worked with the ANA/ANP, most of those guys can't handle bootlaces let alone high end military hardware such as used by the US military.

It isn't that they're some troglodyte subspecies or whatever, just that they're a product of a third world country that has been at war since... forever.

I expect to see many neighboring countries flooded with surplus AK-74s if and when aforementioned new Russian assault rifle hits major fielding.

 

Hey, I fully hear you on the ANA guys.

Their Sia Sang base here in Kabul is run by a bunch of monkeys. Three of their MOST SKILLED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE officers couldn't figure out how to use a fucking PC and give me some files I was supposed to get from them. Hell, they couldn't even figure out how to find the files.

Luckily, the USN mentor there told them to get the hell out after 30 minutes of bullshittery and gave me the files. Unbelievable.

I do wonder what the US Military will provide the ANA with when it comes to the billions of dollars worth of military equipment to be supplied to the ANA within the coming months. Most of it brandnew, too.

http://www.tolonews.com/en/video/ka...eceive-unique-equipments-in-four-months-ghani

Any chance you'll buy the surplus AKs and send them to AFG?

 

YES! I love gunshop talk.

AK. Although the sight radius is the same as that of an M4, the open top, pistol style sights really blow. The safety sucks, and you'd need a Krebs Custom safety ($50) to change the safety from a clunky "lemme use my firing hand" switch to trigger finger actuated safety. Also, mounting zoom optics. The ACOG is a great way to make troops more accurate without necessarily teaching him all the fundamentals. While shooting alongside SWAT ninjas, as a civilian back then, I was making hits at 100 with a 4x ACOG with *ease* while mr. Ninja had slightly more difficulty with his 1x optic.

To rectify this, you'd need a TWS dogleg rail to mount a proper rail to your AK. Then, you'd also have to deal with different mounts to get proper cheekweld. In other words, the AK isn't set up as a modern carbine, and the design is *very* dated, being more than 60 years old (IIRC first saw use in 1949 to beat up on Czechs). The current UTG side-mounts suck, and are even worse in terms of cheek weld.

Do you know which primary firearm the Ruskies will use next? I had heard rumblings about the AN94, but then I've heard it's unreliable and poopy.

I don't think I'd buy a AK-74 *unless* they're sub $400 (like $350). I'm already tooled up for 7.62x39 joy (I have like 2,000+ rounds of that stuff), and don't want to deal with purchasing more magazines and ammo (unless, of course, Remy wants to donate a buncha 5.45 to me ). If a 7.62x39 Saiga crosses my path for $350 though....I'll definitely grab it like a wolf on lamb-steak.

Whoo! What a good fap. *FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP*
--- merged: Sep 29, 2011 2:14 PM ---
Ooooh, and I don't think the AK will go anywhere for at least another 100 years. In 2111, when we're using Lasers and invading Antarctica for their oil, the native penguins will still use AKs to fight back.

There are about 50 MILLION AKs in circulation today. There's a logistic network set up in durka durka land supplying magazines and ammunition for the AK. Afghanis have it, Pakis have it, Liberians have it, etc. etc. In short, the sheer number, the hardy design, and the ubiquity of the AK means it won't be the end of the avtomat era for quite a while.

 

sweet can't wait for cheap ass ak's and ammo

 

A flood of ak-74's hitting the market sounds good to me. However wouldn't they still have to be disassembled and shipped over here and then:

A) be reassembled by Century and completely fucked up
B) be reassembled by quality companies but the quality reassembly process therefore jacks up the price

?

Also here's a random question: What type of ammo are the "bad guys/insurgents" using in Afghanistan? Corrosive or non-corrosive? I would suspect corrosive because it's much cheaper. The reason why I wonder is because I see all these videos on youtube about guy's baby'ing their ak's after shooting corrosive ammo by hosing them down with windex, then pouring boiling water into the gas tube/receiver/barrel, using an air compressor to make sure there's no water left, and then proceeding to actually clean the gun.

I have a feeling the average "bad guy" doesn't go through that much work cleaning his ak after he gets done shooting it (if it gets cleaned at all) and I imagine it still works. Any thoughts on this?

 

Taliban are actually well-trained and -funded for what they are. They do get tons of military-style training and are taught all the basics.

And they certainly take care of their weapons, because they fully realize their importance in a battle.

Unless their destiny was decided to be a suicide bomber. In that case, who cares?

 

Hey, there's nothing wrong with Century AK clones *failure to feed on the first 4 shots* *slamfires a 4 round burst* *jams every third round for the rest of the day*

 

I agree on the limits of the AK and have to admit its time has passed for a modern Euro Warsaw pact conflict. An integrated aimpoint design would be good to start this century with.
You dont want to be using bolt actions when the enemy has sumbachine guns again ya know?

I forget how many AKs I have, 30+? It's a great gun for the rest of the world. Some places favor an AK over an optic operated rifle. Like damp humid jungles in S America. I am curious how many US vs VC troops in vietnam actually used their iron sights at all. When SHTF in places like that its spray n pray.

I think the reason Russia has not switched away so fast is COST. AKs are cheap and durable. Even the Polish TantalBeryl mixes of NATO AK specs cost significantly more than a base AK. Maybe Russia can make a Plasma rifle in the 40watt range to save costs.

--
For Jericho: the insurgents in Iraq used good quality Romanian or Egyptian AKs for the most part. Ammo also came from military stores. Heck, some of the coolest sniper rifles were pulled out of Iraqi warehouses. But Afghanistan is a mix. I have come across Russian stamped, Bulgarian milled and those Pakistani copies of no name. And ammo is also a hodgepodge of headstamps and whatever. Most insurgents dont last any longer than a hellfire takes to fly off a rail, so rifle cleaning does not matter. These are also the guys who default to : GOD WILLING when in doubt of anything.

Should we duck as this Apache comes by? -NO, if it is GODS WILL then we will be ok. -Yeah.....good plan.

For the rest of Afghanistan who owns AKs, they do clean them, as it is their one and only. No bluing left, but they are clean!