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Who's the sexual victim??

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by rogue49, Dec 9, 2014.

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  1. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Location:
    The American Midwest
    It's relevant in the sense that spouses of dementia patients are damned no matter what they do.
     
    Street Pattern, Dec 18, 2014
    #21
    • Like Like x 1
  2. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I don't find that relevant to this thread. Spouses of dementia patients aren't entitled to free and open sexual expression. If you want it, then do all you can to make sure it's discreet. And if it's not, don't expect your neighbors to part with tradition and treat you like a beleaguered spouse patting your cock and saying, 'there, there now.' We make choices and we deal with the consequences. If you're prepared for that in America then keep your genitals in your pants or you remain open to the consequences. That's pretty much all I have to say about that.
    --- merged: Dec 18, 2014 at 3:02 AM ---
    I guess I am reacting to the idea that a person has to be accepted for their sexual choices when it is obvious that it is neither the time nor the place that we are living in. I live a nontraditional sexual lifestyle, but i am for the most part discreet and don't go around expecting unassuming people to accept it. Infidelity is a particularly contentious subject when it comes to a spouse whose partner has become debilitated. And perhaps rightfully so. Seems to me that trying to circumnavigate it is kind of an asshole move when you've made that vow. Coming from someone who thinks those vows are fraught with bear traps and self-fulfilling prophecies, I will admit to taking a little satisfaction from it. I don't see much of a difference between seeking outside sex when your spouse is frigid than when your spouse is debilitated. It's the name of the monogamy game.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2014
    mixedmedia, Dec 18, 2014
    #22
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Here the problem...How are you to tell when a person is "aware" or not??
    Who determines it??

    And I know that even experts have difficulty in this...telling where mechanical function ends...and self-awareness and desire begins. And when?
    So, how do we expect a normal person to say...this person is "here"?

    And even worse...the status fluxes moment by moment.

    Can YOU tell if a person's smile is moment of pleasure...or just a face tick??
    People react the way they react.
    And they may do what they think is right and within the law. (or is may be right, but not within the law...or it may be an "unwritten" rule...or, or, or, or, or...)

    So, you have the law...which in some cases are strict and distinct...and tested often...or at least more distinct or more often than others. Like the age of consent. (the beginning, which is usually 18 in the US for ALL contexts)
    But it is not as clear or tested on the other side.
    In either mature age ...or disability. ...or "awareness"

    This is where it gets messy and ambiguous...and there is the potential that ANY side gets hurt...or all sides.

    Are YOU going to be the judge who splits the baby down the middle???

    Much less, be the person watching their baby get split.

    Or even so, be the person who is living the situation up until the point the baby is about to be split.
    And making those choices that lead to it... (which I'm sure you didn't think would)

    These are the cases where no one wins.
    But these are also the cases that help define the law.
    So which is right??

    And would YOU like to be the one to make the decision??
    Much less, live through it.

    ---------

    IMHO, the point is now moot.
    She is dead.
    There will be no justice here.
    Let it go, let him live with what he has (and doesn't have)

    Why spend the money and time on it? Unless someone else has an agenda...
    We've got better and more clear things to work on and worry about. (especially in our glutted court system)

    And if you think it's gross...go have a baby...that's gross too (by many perspectives and definitions.)
    And maybe it will get split down the middle...
     
    rogue49, Dec 18, 2014
    #23
    • Like Like x 3
  4. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Location:
    Inside The Nucleus of Feminism
    The problem in all this is that we don't have anyone who isn't the dude to speak to. There is no one who can reliably speak on behalf of the deceased or the Alzheimer's ravaged.

    In most circumstances, fucking someone who isn't of a sound mind is rape, whether there is a history of fucking or not. And while there is no doubt a lot of tragedy in this situation, there is also the pretty-well-documented historical fact that marital rape hasn't even always been something that is recognized by the law. A Republican congresshombre who believes he's entitled to full reign over the pleasurable parts of his wife's sexual organs, whether she knows who he is or not, isn't exactly a shocking phenomenon. But I believe that as a married man, you aren't entitled to your wife's loins. As a responsible adult, you aren't entitled to the loins of someone who might not even know who you are.

    I am of the mind that fucking someone who is officially unable to make sense of the world is some kind of awful, I could see someone less inclined to emphasize consent over history being like "yeah, you were cool with fucking me before your brain failed, so let's fuck now." Personally, I have a hard time (haha, fuck) imagining a viable riding a train to bonertown while the love of my life is confusing me with Johnny-Asshole-whom-she-wooed-sixty-years-ago. How is dementia even ever sexy? How is it not something where you, instead of getting a boner, curse the fucking futility of love and compassion and then just quietly weep to yourself and wait to die? No boners there.

    Doesn't this asshole know about tinder?
     
    Bodkin van Horn, Dec 19, 2014
    #24
    • Like Like x 2
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Everything you said, true.
    But to a certain context...

    Problem is this...in the normal course of life...and normal course of events...dealing with normal people...even they can't often tell what's what (which is why we have trials and people get proper representation)
    Now add to this the surreal dynamic and interaction happening moment by moment.

    We don't have enough info.
    Who put her in the facility? Who defined her status? Was it severe or border-line? Who made the claim of "abuse"? Who defines "sex"? Etc...and so on.
    Who says we can "grant" him an out from his vows? Or if he even wanted to leave her?

    This man...may be a saint by most normal definitions...interacting with someone he cares. (or he may be a slimy villain) We don't know.
    We could even have selfish children who go after him...and get the authorities after him...for whatever reason. We don't know.
    Or if it's like anything in this type of complexity...a mottled clusterfuck of gray and variables.

    If it was black & white, I would agree with you. Fully.
    If we knew more details, perhaps we'd be able to determine the more real situation...or perhaps the authorities know more. Then we could say, "Yes, this man is disgusting...throw him in jail" But we don't.

    There's a reason we have "Guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt"
    Well folks...we've got SERIOUS doubt here. (at least from what's known, to us...or even to the authorities)

    I still say, the point is moot.
    She's passed.

    Many people are ready to throw him into prison for the rest of his likely short life, for "Eww, gross! That's just plain wrong."
    We've got have more substantial standards, than just things that give us the "willies"
    What are the facts?
    What is the impact?
    Was there really a violation of law?

    Because otherwise we get into people in jail for being gay...interracial relations...or not liking old people sex...or not liking sex with a border-line autistic...or someone who was innocent...or, or, or, or...

    This is the reason I put up this thread.
    It's a really good debate and perspective of relative morality and the application of it in society.
    Life...it's is a complicated thing.
    And the law...attempting to enforce man-made definitions in a complex and dynamic situation is often incredibly challenging (and many times wrong)

    Uhh...didn't they just over-turn a 70 year death sentence (and executed) of a black boy???

    My point...UNLESS, the authorities have more to go on than we do. They should let it go.
    Unless they are forced to by law, but often they do have some discretion.
    We've got clearer things to worry about.

    I wonder if there's another article noting if there's more detail or forward movement on this?
    That may make it clearer.
     
    rogue49, Dec 19, 2014
    #25
  6. genuinemommy

    genuinemommy Moderator Staff Member

    This.
     
    genuinemommy, Dec 19, 2014
    #26
  7. Chris Noyb

    Chris Noyb Get in, buckle up, hang on, & be quiet.

    Location:
    Large City, TX
    I have some cousins who are very functional, but do have major intellectual development problems (since saying retarded is a no-no, some one needs to come up with simple word to replace retarded) in some ways. I could easily see them thinking that marriage gives them the right to their wife's body no matter what the circumstances. I know for a fact two them committed marital rape--long before it had name and at a time when it was generally acceptable--on a regular basis.
     
    Chris Noyb, Dec 19, 2014
    #27
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, some time has past...and there's a few more articles
    I found these by doing a search on the guy's name.
    Well, if you read the earlier ones...back in July, Aug when it first came out...the tone of the articles were "factual"...as if this is the case, these were the items prosecuted for, this was "the" situation.
    And her daughter was made guardian of her for some reason...but it sounds like a split between her side of the family ...and his.

    And now that you read the later article, coming out now...the case and situation has gotten more blurred.
    And the tone of the articles have changed into "questioning". (from the same news too)
    With the prosecutor actually trying to move the case...because the locals and environ is moving against him. (because of favoritism for the long time representative...who has dropped out of his race)

    I don't know...if I'm interpreting it correctly...sounds like a family divided.
    Different agendas. Differing definitions.
    And a more aggressive prosecutor...who's case is starting to spin out of control.

    Sounds like it was a mess from the start...and got messier...then add a case that is questionable.
    BUT...it sounds like the guy was at least warned...and should have been wary. (from what was stated in the earlier sources...but I don't know if this has changed)
    And I don't know if this facility allows this "activity" or not...but I wouldn't think so. (then again, they could be just CYA'ing)

    What a fuckin' mess.
    In any way you think about it.
    And it's just getting messier...

    I don't know about you, but if I was a judge...I wouldn't want it.
    I guess that's why they get paid the "big bucks"
    And why we have Hollywood writing on this shit...either way it goes down...whatever the truth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
    rogue49, Dec 19, 2014
    #28
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