Who's the sexual victim??

I think rape and sexual assault need to be reserved for the really bad ones. Maybe sexual coercion would be a better term to frame a law around. It is the same thing when a 17 year old guy willingly and enthusiastically sleeps with an attractive teacher who is aware that the guy is under the legal age. I don't think jail time is warranted in these cases though.

 

I don't know whether there are any 'victims' in this situation. He certainly isn't, if that's the implication of the title of this thread. I don't know enough about this situation to form an opinion one way or another. For instance, what stage of Alzheimer's was she in? It makes a big difference. If it was toward the end, like stage 6 or 7, then that's pretty fucking creepy.

 

This may be me reading something into the story that isn't there but it seems like her daughters had an ax to grind and were in the front to make sure charges were brought.
When I worked at the assisted living home there were families that would tear into each other, once even getting into a fist fight in the parking lot.

 

I've seen that first hand as well. While it does seem creepy to me, not knowing the situation beyond an article, and not being in that position myself, I can't really be a fair judge of creepy. Laws like this were meant to protect the mentally disabled from outside predators, and this feels more like an unintended loop hole, but thats why we have jury trials.

 

I think it's important to realize that Alzheimer's not only involves a progressive loss of cognitive function, but of motor function, as well - to the point at the end where they lose all power of voluntary movement. It's not as simple as 'dementia.' She could have not known who he was at that point. And in an "advanced stage" of Alzheimer's she might not have been able to distinguish sex from a medical procedure. I have met many people in nursing homes and hospitals that no one should be assuming they can have sex with. I don't care if you're their husband or wife or not. Based on my first hand experience with it, I choose not to be dismissive until I know what sort of condition she was in.

 

I see there is an entire section on the events that took place. I missed that this morning. I think that is a complicated case and I don't know whether her husband should be charged with anything. I just don't know. Even though it seems clear that she was not in a position to do a lot of important decision-making. We already have some laws about having sex with people who are mentally impaired and I think this is a subject that will need to be looked at further.

And as for my own personal judgment of the husband's behavior, I think it is creepy.

 

And of course heaven forfend if the spouse of a long-mentally-absent dementia patient starts seeing other people!

 

I don't see how that's relevant. It certainly isn't legally ambiguous.

 

No, but I have seen people (at least two that I can think of) in that situation get hit with very very heavy social disapproval, losing friends, etc.

But this is the Midwest. Maybe you don't see that in Oregon.

 

In what situation? Fucking someone who is responding to very elemental sexual signals who may or may not know who you are? I get the losing friends part. i don't see the correlation part.

I mean, if you're so determined to 'tuck in your wife' with your dick who is in a nursing home because you can no longer handle her on a day to day basis...and you also choose to live a private life, then I've no issue with your suffering. Some behaviors deserve observation.

 

Um, maybe I'm an idiot, but I am completely baffled by what you wrote. What are you talking about?

I'm not really interested in getting into the weeds about defining abuse of a dementia patient. Frankly, the whole concept just makes me ill.

The people I mentioned had essentially given up on their mentally disabled spouses as spouses, found companionship with someone else, and suffered opprobrium as a result.

In my experience locally, there seems to be VERY little compassion for a person who has essentially lost a wife or husband, when the disabled party continues to be technically alive. Divorcing them would be monstrous, I get that, but seeing other people is considered just as bad.

I guess you're expected to sit there in the nursing home day after day holding your spouse's unfeeling hand, for years or decades, and not be allowed to date anyone else, until they finally stop breathing?

"In sickness and in health," sure, but what about five or ten years of not even recognizing you, with no hope of any improvement?

In one case, an acquaintance of mine took very good care of his wife, whose mind was gone, but meanwhile became involved with a same-sex partner. Formerly popular, he was made a pariah, and ultimately he and his partner had to leave town. (Admittedly this was about 20 years ago.)

 

I completely agree, based on my experiences in assisted living facilities, esp. the memory care units, and nursing homes. A person can reach the point where sex should be completely out of the question, even if the parties are married and one party is congnitive and healthy enough for sex.

My MIL has alzheimer's disease. Until very recently she was reasonably functional cognitively speaking, and her physical health was actually pretty good for her age. She & FIL had sex up to certain point in time, even at their advanced ages. She eventually reached the point where her consent was highly questionable at best, and impossible at worst. Sex didn't become an issue because my FILs vascular dementia & physical health worsened very rapidly.

My FIL died in late July. If my wife and/or I found out that someone with clear thinking was having sex with my MIL, we'd go after that person and the facility that allowed it to happen. It would be because of my MILs condition, the inability to consent, not some moral reason.

As many have posted, the situation is question has much gray area. It could be a matter of marital rape where he clearly knew better, or it could be a situation where he thought it was OK but should've known better.

EDIT--Another complicating factor is dementia can stimulate the libido. Old people, male and female, that you might think are well past sexual thoughts can become verbally & physically suggestive, and "grabby."

 

Sure, but that's not what this thread is about. I guess I'm out of sync with the grand segue. What happened to your friends really isn't relevant to this situation.
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I agree that it is a very grey area and not one that anyone should be making assumptions about. There are a lot of variables to consider.