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It's the Economy, stupid - Languishing & Lingering after the Great Recession

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I wrote that experts should factor in other material variables, I agree taxes are a material variable. I also said I could do the numbers crunching, but I would want to be paid for the time and effort. Wages are an important issue in determining how the middle class is doing, it is not the only one. In addition, to compare cross generations can be misleading because different generations place different values on certain things. Using a 1960's standard for those born in 1980, or 2000 can lead to faulty conclusions. What I am posting on this issue is true and correct - I believe you know that - so what are we doing?

    I am not sure how I can explain the flaw in the statement above. If the healthcare expenditures are being paid, how is it possible that they are not keeping up with inflation? Where is the leakage? In Canada government controls healthcare expenditures, I assume has controls over what will be paid and to whom...and government calculates inflation - seems to me that government officials can make this look like whatever they want it to look like. I would prefer to consider other methods of determining value under this circumstance.

    By what measure? Wages, I agree wages have been flat. Not everyone is trying to maximize wages, are you? Don't you consider a load of other variables, some of which are more important than wages? Why would I, based on my life priorities, compare how I am doing in terms of wages to a guy who values wages over everything else - I don't!

    Ivy League schools require no family contribution towards tuition for families that generally earn less than 6 figures annually. Students at universities who get academic, sports or other full scholarships may be getting a $100,000+ education, room and board at no cost- they may have some expenses for books and other misc. item.

    I wish someone else would help me out here. I feel you do not believe anything I post. I sure others can confirm some of these points or answer your questions - and perhaps you would believe it.
     
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's not that I don't believe you. I say grass is dying and you point to the greener grass. I know there is greener grass.

    What about the grass that's dying?
     
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Y'know...it was just a few years ago when everyone was saying, "Why can't the US be like Europe??" :rolleyes:

    Now, they're all like the US is a beacon and everyone else is a drag on it...according to IMF specs - Link

    My...how petty & fickle these economists are...you'd think they're a bunch of TV pundits.
    Flip-flop much???

    But I have faith that the US Congress is going to muck it up somehow and waste the momentum and resources.
    So, no worries for long, rest of the world...we'll be down there again soon, just like you.
     
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The picture is hardly rosy. Despite U.S. growth over the past few years, wages are still barely keeping up with inflation.

    So while the U.S. economy is growing, it's mostly to the benefit of the wealthy. Again.

    This isn't great or fantastic news. It's simply a return to the status quo.
     
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, if they could get the crazies out of the House...then they'd pass some new laws benefiting the typical citizen.
    But right now, it's all about the 1%
    At least they're starting to close the tax loopholes.

    It's likely going to be a whole different story in 2016, when all the groundhog Dems come out of their holes.
    It's worrying the GOP like mad.
     
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Oil prices plunge as production rises, fueling concern in OPEC

    And finally, the oil comes tumbling down...stuff has been inflated for way too long.
    Especially after that one trader made a $100/barrel bid just to "do it".
    And even years ago, I saw LOTS of huge oil tankers just lingering in the Panama Canal, waiting for the price to rise.
    We've been over-producing for years.
    And the price has been paid on the backs of people...driving...and thru trucking costs.

    Now if they can just break the Ethanol consortium...and get rid of it...and allow corn and sugar prices to come back down. (which affects food prices)
    The average joe may just catch a break.
     
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    That doesn't bode well for Canadian oil producers. Many break even at around $80 per barrel. If this remains consistent, expect investment in Canadian oil to dry up and a greater reliance on cheaper sources. (And you know where they are.)
     
  8. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect

    Location:
    At work..
    I woke up to $2.99 a gallon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    In Toronto, it has dropped to about US$3.92 per gallon, which is the lowest it's been in a couple of years. In the summer, it peaked at around US$4.73 per gallon. (Toronto prices are pretty close to Canada's national average.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2014
  10. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Honestly, though, lower demand is an issue tied into lower prices, not just oversupply. If demand is low, that's an indicator of slow growth, recessions, or other issues. Deflation is a real risk. It's been a risk for a while now.
     
  12. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Actually, I remember when oil was only 50/barrel...back in 2005...it wasn't that long ago.

    And gold had climbed to a "high" of $900 in 2008

    Commodities have been on a bubble for a long time.
    I have no sympathy. They're just going to have to go back to a reasonable budget.

    [​IMG]

    Besides, it's not the US and Canada or the Saudis that are going to hurt.
    It's Russia, Venezula and some less established Middle Eastern nations.

    Right now, we're just seeing the panic people in action.
    You want to see what the attitude should be, watch Warren Buffett. (his moves show you what the real deal is)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You mean automobiles and renewable energy?
     
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    No, I mean the energy panic currently ongoing over 2 days.
    Buffett is fairly steady and casual, so no reason to go crazy.
    He just keeps sucking up the money everyone else is stupid to drop.

    But, he wouldn't be into any cutting edge tech...it's not his thing. (avoids it like the plague)

    However, we're getting closer and faster towards alternative autos and renewables than we've ever have before.
    And they've become "doable" in the cost and volume context.

    It will be at least another decade before there is substantial conversion.

    But, if a lot of oil vendors go under or are hurt due to the price break...then that will give less to resist alternatives.
     
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, he's bought America's fifth largest auto retailer (with plans on adding more through consolidation) and is dropping $30 billion in solar and wind. It's gotta account for something.
     
  16. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, the first is not tech...just sales.
    And it's a large scale established chain...which obviously, they're going to be expanding. - Link
    (hmm...I wonder if his dealerships will offer special plans/rates with Geico, another BH company)

    And a good summary on the energy angle from the same site. - Link
    I think it's an influence of the newer people coming into the leadership lately...and they are starting to try to be Berkshire Hathaway without Warren Buffett.
    He's always evaded tech before...so the last couple I've seen some changes.

    Still, he's buying while everyone else is crying...which makes my point about his attitude.
    I'll worry when he worries.
     
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I meant the auto retail part as more of a general feel for the economy. (Though renewable energy is a part of that too.) "Berkshire Hathaway Automotive" wouldn't be made a thing unless they thought the U.S. economy was set to move a lot of cars.
     
  18. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    On one hand, it would be great if the price of oil goes down to $50. Hopefully the frackers and tar sand operators would lose a bunch of money and stop for a while.

    The problem would be that without increasing the gas taxes, it would cause people to use more because they don't think $2.50-$3.00 gas is 'expensive' anymore. People would buy bigger trucks and SUVs because they think that prices will be this low for the next 10 years...
     
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    This is interesting...and I wish we could get more extensive data. (globally too...)
    Secret Job-Market Slack Complicates Fed Rate Decision

    There are a lot of factors as to what makes a "good job" and its appropriate fit for individuals.

    IMHO, while it is important that the powers that be take this into account...where do we stop??
    There is so much that come into play...and it's ambiguous...and much is on the ambition/anxiety level of the employee themselves.

    Just because a person has a degree...doesn't mean they are or are not qualified for a particular position.
    It could be their communication skills...quality of work...job history and consistency...and so on.

    There's only so much the government or entities can control.

    Frankly, I think the Fed should get off zero, because it becomes a crutch...expected, (biz wants it like sugar)
    there's not as much to affect the market, not as much leverage
    and it would be a good sign that we're getting out of the duldrums...improve morale and perspective of stability.

    If they're going to judge by education vs. wage...or minimal hours...
    Why don't they judge by benefits
    or overlapping roles (wearing multiple "hats")
    maximum hours...overworking or unusual shifts
    large relocations
    taking jobs outside of your normal role
    take a position beyond the typical eduction level. (this happens to me all the time...or even all the above)

    and so on...all these factor into whether the companies are hiring or not...or you're not in your "appropriate" position.
    How many companies out there are not hiring because they know they can get away with pushing their existing employees even more???

    You should adjust the rate for what it is...and what the economy as a whole is.
    The job factor is another item all-together.
     
  20. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Quite frankly, I say a pox on ALL the Houses.
    Dems, GOP, SCOTUS, Corporations and Media.

    They are forgetting one thing in all this...the citizens...the people.
    They don't tell us what they are going to do.
    They don't consider the impact to us.
    They only cater to THEIR bottom line.

    Now I'm not a friggin' communist/marxist/French Revolutionary.
    But, everyone needs to remember who's the client here.
    Who should you serve?

    The stats...they're getting better, but that's not because anyone is doing anything for the people.
    They're just going through the paces.
    It truly is "trickle" down.
    Drip by drip.

    But it's leaving a yellow stain.
    Stop pissin' on us.