Euthanasia vs Suicide

Turns out Robin Williams was battling Parkinson's.
That changes my perspective on his "apparent suicide."
My thoughts went from, "wow, that's sad." to "Wow, that's really sad."
No, really... it's a bummer all around that he's gone.
Do you think things would have been different if there was a viable euthanasia option in the United States?
Do you think that he would have made use of the option?
Would the media coverage of the euthanasia passing of a well-loved publicity like Robin Williams change the perspective of the majority of Americans on the process?

Just a thought... have fun discussing.

 

There are viable euthanasia options in the United States. It's legal here in Oregon, and it's also legal in Washington and Vermont. There's a documentary about it: How to Die in Oregon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Here's a series The Oregonian did on a particular case: Lovelle Svart - Living to the End - The Oregonian

I'm not sure what would have been different here. Parkinsons is generally a long, slow thing. My husband's grandfather has had it for quite a long time; Michael J. Fox has lived with the disease for twenty plus years. In Oregon, you have to have six months or less to live to use the Death with Dignity Act, and the patient must be judged to be mentally competent. http://www.deathwithdignity.org/sites/default/files/imported/media/uploads/OregonDWDFactSheetwLogo.pdf

Less than 100 people used the Death with Dignity Act last year to end their lives in the state of Oregon, so it's not exactly a popular choice, but people ought to be free to exercise that choice. Depression is a different beast altogether, though. I understand the desire to be free of the pain of depression all too well, but the pain is often temporary--or at the very least, it comes and it goes. It can end via means other than death.

 

Well, it's not just the Parkinson's itself...but the fact that it triggers physical depression...which is something Williams battled anyway throughout life.
So, that may have been an added factor...or cumlative to his decision...or anyone else's.

One of the things that I learned during my support of my Ex with her 3 auto-immune diseases,
was that these significant illnesses may have been lingering throughout the earlier years of the person, before they became "apparent" or obvious or emergent.
So that in itself may be a factor with previous illnesses, symptoms or other factors that you thought was something else.

Unfortunately, medicine is only just getting a handle on these subtle and complex diseases...and how they overlap with other more "common" illnesses.
And even many doctors are ill prepared to either detect ...or address these.
Example, it took 2 years and 30+ doctors just to "start" figuring out what my Ex had. (Sjogren's was first...then later RA, then finally Lupus)
There were many misdiagnosises and misdirections before that...much less HOW to deal with it.

And even only after that...experiencing the issue with time and awareness,
were she & her mother able to figure out that many of her previous issues were likely these diseases, following a pattern and type.
But no hospital or doctor was able to make the connection beforehand...they just treated what they thought was the "apparent" issue.

Some people can take the impact of the disease...and keep going.
Some do not deal with it well...and yet, keep going. (and their friends & family suffer for it as well at times)
And unfortunately, some say "forget this" and act.
And you never know if this was a logical and calulated decision...spur of the moment...or was it something affecting the person's mind and emotions.
There are too many variables.

In the end, it is up to the person to figure out how to communicate...and compensate.
The world can't save a person who doesn't reach out.

 

They weren't viable options for him.

What if someone is 70, relatively healthy, and just wants an out? Like this Berkeley professor emeritus: Chemical suicide victim was UC Berkeley professor | Berkeleyside

There wasn't a viable euthanasia option for her, either.

 

Should there be?

The Oregon law is designed to help those who are going to die avoid prolonging the pain they are in. I think it's reasonable to limit it to those with terminal illnesses. I'm not the kind of person to make a sanctity of life argument, but I will say that if we're going to have the state involved, it stands to reason that it ought to be well-defined and limited in scope.

 

Check out this case in Belgium.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323463704578495102975991248
--- merged: Aug 15, 2014 at 9:06 AM ---
I started this thread because I have no idea where I stand on physician-assisted suicide or euthanasia. I'm not ready to form opinions or vote on the matter. And I figure it's going to be increasingly on people's minds with Robin Williams' actions. So I'd better start thinking about it and forming an informed opinion. Fair warning: In the weeks ahead, I will most likely be posting things that support both sides of the argument.

Here's an enlightening perspective:
Robin Williams Didn't Kill Himself
Tidbits below...
"Oh, my friend, if only you knew, I thought to myself. If only you understood. If only you could grasp it. It was not him. It was his illness. It can be so hard to understand for the mentally healthy. Just as I cannot possibly comprehend what it means for someone to have AIDS or cancer, I think it can be truly hard for people to wrap their minds around the idea the overwhelming, suffocating nature of severe mental illness. That someone could feel so depressed, so low, that their perception of reality is so distorted that they feel that lack of life is preferable to life. It is a sign of our times that we use the words, “Robin Williams killed himself”, in reputable news outlets. That we mention, offhand, that he was suffering from depression. That they are only tangentially connected."
"What scares me the most about the death of Robin Williams is that it is clear how woefully ill-equipped the world is to fight mental health. How anyone, truly anyone, can fall to it, even someone with tons of money for treatment and support from the world."

 

Here's a link to an article that is critical of Belgium's policies...
Euthanasia: We can live without it... - CNN.com

 

I don't know too much about euthanasia but they sure did a good job sewing my sneakers.

The problem with offering assisted suicide for non-terminal patients is that the general consensus as far as I'm aware is that a healthy individual should not want to die. Suicidal thoughts and urges are a symptom of a greater illness. Treat the illness.

If someone is determined to kill themselves they're going to do it and there's not much help for that. In the case of terminal patients that's an understandable choice to make. For everyone else, I'd suggest it's a better choice to encourage them to seek help.

 

There are cases where it's justifiable and humane to allow someone to die gracefully. Insofar as it's possible to die gracefully. There are also a lot of cases of people who express or even act on a desire to kill themselves, where that desire stems from hormone imbalances or other disorders. Robin Williams is making headlines right now, and it's a lesson. He had everything. He had money, success, a family, he was loved by millions. He killed himself because he was sick, and because he was sick none of that mattered. Had he received adequate treatment he might be alive today.

Like I said, we can't stop people from killing themselves if they're truly determined to do it. So the real question is whether or how much we want to create an environment that accepts or encourages that. A great many people who kill themselves do so as a consequence of mental illness, and for those people I'd rather maintain a taboo on suicide.

It's a complicated issue. There's a line, I think. Where do we decide it's okay? Under what circumstances is it acceptable to autoextinguish?

I support someone's right to end their suffering but I think we need to be careful to make sure that the folks making that decision are taking the long view, as well. There were times during my illness where it felt like there was no point in fighting. Would it have been right for me to kill myself? I don't know but I'm sure as hell glad I didn't now.

 

Well, in RW's case...he actually had detailed knowledge of Parkinson's from his work on the movie, "Awakenings"
He knew the doctor he was playing and the drug they used on the people was the same they used for Parkinson's...at least at that time.

Knowing his inquisitive mind and ability to recall...he likely got info on it from the doctor and remembered all the details.

It's a difficult thing looking at debilitation straight in your face...knowing what's happening and what may happen.
And he's made his career being hyper-active.
So, between that, the heart-condition and getting old...he was likely thinking the odds were building up against him.

Plus, many of us have low moments, even in the best of times and health.
I know for all his generosity and sincerity, he also had a thin skin, taking criticism and failing events personally...and they just canceled "The Crazy Ones" after one season. (who knows why...and how rough it got either)

I think none of us know what anyone is going through.
And we seem to discount it if we're not going through it.

In the end, you can only try your best to help those who are low.
And it's up to them to help themselves...and get past it.

And don't think, just because you have formal euthanasia, you're not going to have suicide or it may affect trends. People will always do spontaneous actions.
I think it's about the laws and civilization not being in denial...and setting up a support structure.
Draconian rules are not going to do the trick.