Internet Lunatics - RadFems, PUA's, MRA's, MGTOW's, etc.

Discussions about rape culture can easily get bogged down over questions of individual responsibility. While individual actions can definitely affect rape culture, "rape culture" is about culture, not individuals. It says so right there. Culture is emergent. It's what happens when people interact with each other. Throw a bunch of people together, and one of the things that they will create is culture. Rape culture refers to a culture that facilitates sexual assault. One doesn't need to be a rapist to live in a rape culture just like I don't need to listen to (insert reference to pop diva du jour) to be surrounded by pop culture. So if you take it personally when someone brings up rape culture, that might just be your way of dealing with uncomfortable ideas (unless someone is calling you a rapist purely for being a man, in which case, to hell with them). But if you're behaving in ways that are consistent and/or reinforcing to rape culture, you should get off your fucking high horse and think about how your actions affect the people around you.

Rape culture means that there are aspects of our culture that make rape easier for perpetrators and harder for survivors. Like high school girls getting a week long training about how not to get raped while their male counterparts get a week long training about free throws. Who does this lesson plan implicitly place the responsibility for avoiding rape on? This is rape culture. A verse in the bible suggests that women don't have the right to refuse their husbands sex, some Christians act accordingly. This is rape culture. For most of the history of the US, marital rape wasn't a crime. This is rape culture. The fact that prison rape is a punchline is rape culture. The fact that a fundamental component of administration for the Catholic Church involves hiding child rapists from legal sanction is rape culture. "If it's legitimate rape, a woman's body has ways of shutting down" is rape culture. There are a whole lot more insidious and covert ways this plays out daily too.

But if someone is like "Dude, our culture is fundamentally fucked up," and your response is "I'm not like that," then that tonal distortion you're hearing (should you decide to listen) is the Doppler effect The Point is making as it soars past you and off into the distance.

 

I think rapists should be sterilized (vasectomy), and possibly put a stint into the prostate so they can never get an erection again if the rape was forced. Say what you will about the death penalty acting as a deterrent, but not being able to have sex and orgasms would be a fair punishment in my book, and would stop a lot of this I would bet.

So what is the truth then? Did they do a larger study across many states to see what childhood factors would lead someone to rape a girl? The only thing I see wrong is that they didn't include guys who get away with date rape in college, or rich guys who pressure girls or who make girls think they will be with the guy a long time only to find out the next morning that the guy played them. Add in the military guys who rape other service members too.

That is the problem, I don't see why this shooting spree is being used to start the movement. Yes, the guy was the real deal when it came to being creepy and filled with hatred, but there are bigger problems than these types of guys that women should be afraid of if they don't want to be victimized.

No, we are not the problem. Anyone who thinks it is right or acceptable to circumcise boys or girls are the problem.

I agree with the top part, and not to nit pick, but it is women who 'look' masculine. Guys love women who act and do masculine stuff. MMA fighters, hot girls with guns, girls who don't mind getting dirty, girls who play sports, girls who lift weights, girls who like fishing, girls who like camping in the backcountry...

 

Laugh, when I went to college no one taught me how to shoot free throws but I did get several seminars on how basically all sex would be rape (of her) unless I got forms signed in triplicate first, and yes its hyperbole but that was the gist of it.

You keep focusing on this free throw thingy and it very silly. No thats not the norm, and regardless if it was, most men are not rapists, criminals are rapists. A criminal is going to commit crimes, regardless of you telling him its wrong, he already knows that. Therefore you teach the potential victims how to protect themselves. My children take self defense classes to learn to protect themselves, but there are no "don't beat the crap out of other people" classes out there for the ones they might need protecting from.

There is no "rape culture" there are people who rape, and nothing in our culture that allows it. Calling it "culture" is a way of saying its pervasive and the status quo, its not. Its an exaggeration.

 

Did you read that in Elle?

 

I don't know that it makes that much sense to say that because the rape culture in other places is so much worse then there isn't a rape culture in the US. I also don't know why people take the notion of rape culture personally. It's not personal by its very definition.

 

A lot of people don't listen to Justin Beiber, so there can't be pop culture.

 

I don't know that I would put using racial slurs in the same category as acknowledging the existence of rape culture.

It makes sense that your feelings would be hurt. No one likes being told they are a part of something terrible. But hurt feelings are a consequence of rape culture, not a refutation of it. And we're all a part of it to varying degrees. Men are a part of it. Women are a part of it. Children are a part of it. It's a cultural phenomenon.

 

The rape culture they are talking about is not just the teenage football players who fuck an unconscious underage girl, than leave her to freeze in front of her house.
It's the the parents who didn't make sure that kind of shit wouldn't happen, it's the judge who gave them a slap on the hand, the town that preferred their star players over some slut.
That is rape culture.

 

We'll never be equal, until everyone can admit that we're all assholes, independent of genetic heritage, and in-born pipes and/or mechanicals...

I've never subscribed to anyone else's definition of what it is to be a man. Neither the macho jackasses or the overly-zealous feminists have any effect on who I am. My grandma had more of an effect on me, by showing me a strong, smart woman getting along in a world without a man. She wasn't a feminist. I'm sure she would have balked at using the term, but she was a good example for others, nonetheless.

My daughter is LGBT and I couldn't be happier with her as a person. She doesn't hate men, even straight ones, she just knows who she is.

Rape culture? Sure, there are signs that such a thing exists. I try not to be part of it. I've tried to teach my daughter that her body is hers and she should be adamant about her rights to share or not share it with others. I also said that if someone took advantage of her, over her objections, that it wasn't her fault. The fault lies solely with the perp... There was a bit of victim-blaming in my household, growing up. It really effs up a kid, trust me on that.

I hope I've taught her that I don't believe myself to be perfect, or right all of the time. I'm still a work in progress.

Back on topic. I've read some of those sites and if I have to read any more I will give up on humanity and move into a cave. Even knowing that a lot of people are just trolling, it's depressing.

 

Let me quote RAINN on why "Rape Culture" is an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory:

Rapists rape. Rapists KNOW rape is wrong, and rapists do. not. care. You can not "educate" them out of being rapists, there is no pill you can give them that will make them not be rapists, there is nothing you can do to un-rapist a rapist any more than you can un-murderer a murderer.

Teaching people basic ways to defend themselves from common forms of victimization by rapists is no more "Rape Culture" than it is "Crash Culture" to teach people defensive driving and always wearing a seatbelt, or "Theft Culture" to teach people not to leave valuables out in the open in their car.

Funny because yet again that's a perfect description of your own tired binary thinking more than anything else. You refuse to accept that "Feminism" is anything other than a straw goddess which can do no wrong, you refuse to accept that "Feminism" is a political and social entity independant of the ideal of gender equality and that it's perfectly possible to oppose "Feminism" and yet still be for women's rights. Time and again you utterly refuse to accepting even the possibility that feminism might ever be in the wrong about anything, and then sit there baffled and trying to accuse me of making a straw man when all I'm doing is quoting the very thing you worship.

Let me try this: Do you believe that it's possible to oppose the Republican Party and still believe in Freedom and Democracy? Because what you're doing is nothing more, or less, than insisting "The GOP stands for freedom! Why do you hate America?!".

And there it is. "The GOP stands for freedom, why do you hate America?!". Feminism is not the Virgin Mary. It is not Baby Jesus. It is not a perfect idealistic entity of pure good. It is a political and social entity with a whole lot more to it than "women having rights and equality". Claiming "feminism means equality!" is no different than claiming "The GOP means freedom!". There's a damn lot more to it than that.

What was that you were just saying about binary thinking and a refusal to accept things? You're so desperate to cling to your Feminism-white/Everything else-black worldview that you can't even recognize your own side's definition of "Rape Culture" being quoted right back at you. You just blindly assume I must be wrong and follow your script of invalidating things I say because the mere fact I'm the one saying it is ipso facto proof it's wrong.

Again you take your position as axiomatic. You assume that you are right by default and simply claim that everything in the whole wide world is "Patriarchy". Nothing is ever NOT "Patriarchy".

Once again you embarass yourself by shooting your own foot thinking it's mine. At this point all I need to do is keep quoting feminists at you and letting you shoot it down for me. And by the way, everything in there is correlated with reality because they are literally real events:
We have airlines treating all men as sexual predators, with the added bonus of the largest and most-read feminist website in Canada mocking men over it
We have studies proving women are substantially privileged in the justice system, particularly in avoiding prison altogether
And hell even Jezebel, the poster child for anti-male outrage/clickbait feminism, has admitted society demonizes male sexuality

All I've done is look at the whole pile and realise that these gender norms don't exist in a vacuum, each is a reflection of the other.

If you start at a conclusion you can work backwards and justify it no matter what it is. When I show you incidences where feminists have committed violent crimes against innocents you say that's not representative of feminism as a whole. Then you turn around and use... I don't even know what other than feminist sources... to judge the entire MRM.

But like I said earlier, you're caught in the refusal to accept Feminism as a political and social movement independent of the idea that men and women can be equal. As long as you continue to buy into that Feminism-white Everything else-black worldview you're going to be forced to the conclusion that the MRM must be bad because it opposes the political and social entity known as Feminism.

Just like teabaggers who refuse to accept anything other than "The GOP means Freedom!" will be forced into insisting everyone that isn't a teabagger "hates america" and "hates freedom".

If they really exist, are they boogeywomen? If all I'm doing is quoting feminism is it misinformation? See this is fundamentally the difference between the two of us. I judge feminism by its actions, you judge feminism by the words of people who are trying to explain away, erase, or obfuscate those actions. You are, to borrow a term, pedestalizing feminism as a perfect ideal instead of viewing it as a three dimensional mortal and flawed creation.

Read these few posts by Oneirosgrip, everything in them is cited. The MRM isn't a response to boogeywomen and misinformation, it's a response to a very real side of feminism you refuse to accept exists.

The MRM isn't a backlash, it was formed directly to deal with things that feminism was not just failing to deal with but actively making worse (remember Dr. Koss' nationwide erasure of male rape victims?). The backlash is feminism's violent and often criminal response to the MRM's mere existence.

And if you want to talk about misinformation nothing comes close to feminism's flat-out lies about the MRM. It's actually fitting you posted this today because that's the subject of tonight's broadcast by the Honey Badgers. Listen in if your timezone permits.

 

I see, so rape culture is like the mugging culture, the bike stealing culture, the DUI culture, etc etc?

No I'm sorry but I think this is BS. Basically as long as someone gets raped we have "rape culture", yea right. Rape is bad, we get that, claiming rape is due to our culture, which is what this is, is ridiculous.

 

Well when you base your entire worldview around axiomatically assuming both your side being correct and that it holds a monopoly on morality of course you're going to automatically consider everything you disagree with to be fundamentally wrong and illogical. Just like with any other religion.

Feminism is your Jesus. It represents a perfect good that can do no wrong and is inseperable from morality itself. Therefore if feminism opposes something, or something opposes or disagrees with feminism, it must be bad and it must be illogical. The very idea that something could have logically valid reasons to oppose feminism just does not exist in your world.

That's why I said rape culture is an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory. The very act of trying to disprove it is claimed ipso facto to be proof of its existence. If you go by their own definitions rape culture and patriarchy will never not exist. We'll ALWAYS have both of them because EVERYTHING is rape culture and patriarchy.

 

One can't refute the existence of rape culture if one doesn't actually know what it means. It's hard to take seriously criticisms of rape culture that depend entirely on the idea that culture itself doesn't exist (the 'not all men' canard).


A forest can't possibly be a forest, because it is a collection of trees, and some trees aren't trees, but shrubs and so there is no forest. QED

 

So when you do it it's not libel, but when I point out why your entire process is wrong suddenly it's libel. Gotcha.

Illogical or ridiculous because, again, everything that disagrees with you is inherently judged illogical FOR disagreeing with you.

Ironic that you throw propoganda at me while siding with the group of people who claimed an asian mental patient that hated pickup artists was a white male MRA. Everything I've said I have a source for, my posts are peppered with citations and links, and yet the only thing you ever do is talk about how MRA's must be either evil or insane because either A) you don't like me, or B) Feminism says so.

You cite no evidence beyond patently false feminist smears, you bring no proof, you have no arguments of any kind other than either insisting Feminism can't be wrong therefore it must be me.

"I can't take your argument that something doesn't exist seriously because it's arguing that something doesn't exist."

Like I said, rape culture is an unfalsifiable conspiracy theory that claims attempts to disprove it or arguments against it are ipso facto proof of its existence.

You mean literally the exact defense you guys use to erase, obfuscate, or explain away feminism's long history of violence and criminal attacks against anyone that doesn't toe the party line?