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Politics What is happening????

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Damned if we do,
    Damned if we don't

    Now that's a problem...too big to fail...or be sent to prison.
     
  2. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The revolution is coming to the Capitol tomorrow!

    Operation American Sprint to hit DC to oust Obama, Biden, Boehner, Holder
     
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    A Sisyphean goal at best,
    if not insane.

    But, I guess it's better than spending your spare time wacking off in the basement.
    Or not
    Or if they did, then they'd be calm enough to engage in such endeavors.

    That's a good premise, wack off more...there will be peace in the world.
    See, problem solved.
     
  4. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    Did these "patriots" miss the part where what they are doing is basically trying to overthrow the government they supposedly love so much?
    I'm sorry even the hippies who converged on Washington didn't intend to overthrow Nixon (some of them wanted to elevate the Pentagon but that's a different story).
    This country has a system to change the government every four years (unlike Egypt).
    They know they can't get the votes to do what want so they resort to this bullshit.

    I'm willing to bet they don't get more than a few hundred people.
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Yep.....tens of tens of people attended!

    Operation American Spring falls flat: 'This is very disappointing,' Texan says - Washington Times

    Some of the streaming videos were hilarious (most have been pulled down). One participant suggested that the millions planning to attend were picked up and help in secret camps. A poor women who lost her iphone claimed it was stolen by a liberal.......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I've mentioned something like this before: If there is going to be an uprising/revolution in America, it will be between class lines, not political ones.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Won't happen. 'Mericans too lazy, pork rinds are plentiful and Big Brother has totally pushed everyone away from cardio, survival skills and the notion of sacrifice in the place of complacency and comfort.

    Google "Vigilant Spectre" sometime for painful proof.
     
  8. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    The reason it won't happen between class lines, as it should, is because people are distracted by the charade of political garbage like this and the bullshit that gets talked about in conservative circles.
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    If it won't happen among class divides, then it won't happen at all.

    I think what you say is a gross generalization. Complacency doesn't always go together with comfort. Sometimes it's simply inaction because of a perceived helplessness. Not all Americans are like the folks from Wall•E. I assume most don't have that luxury. What are some of the hallmarks of uprising and revolution, or, at least, mass protest? For starters, it's a reaction to more than simply a perceived threat; it is usually the response to a threat realized.

    Compare the Tea Party movement to Occupy Wall Street. A lot in the former movement were concerned about what might happen to their quality of life based on what might happen to them as a result of the actions or inactions of government. A lot in the latter movement were responding to what actually happened piled upon what has already been going on to negatively impact people's lives, whether it's low incomes, lack of jobs, lack of government support, etc. Sure, you had well-to-do people involved in Occupy, but they were supporting these same realized issues vs. the perceived threats of the Tea Party concerns.

    This is a pretty condensed summary, but I hope it helps explain one thing: The type of response found in Occupy is far, far more closely related to something like the Arab Spring than any Tea Party action. Though Tea Party activity is far more consistent and sustained, Occupy had a larger impact, and a similar response has the potential for more disruptive impact. The reason? More is at stake in the lives of those who participate.

    Why are Americans too passive and complacent? Because of the difference between perceived threat ("not so horrible, but we'll bitch about it") and realized threat ("holy shit, my life is ruined and will only get worse—what do I have to lose vs. what I have to gain?") That's the distinction. The Arab Spring wasn't a response to tax issues, budget issues, or misinterpretation of constitutional issues—it was a response to actual human rights abuses, serious government corruption, worse unemployment than in America, worse poverty than middle class Americans can even imagine, etc.

    As long as America maintains its status quo of its constitution and elections, the worst that Tea Partiers will complain about are taxes and the deficit. This will never lead to any real uprising, just a bunch of bitching. However, if things continue on the same trajectory regarding worsening income inequality, the erosion of the middle class, increasing poverty, and the dismantling of the welfare state, you can be sure that the likelihood of uprising lies in class divides more than anything else. (America: First World wealth; Third World features!)

    Whether it will ever happen is yet to be determined. If it isn't about class, it won't happen. Not unless things change fundamentally.
    --- merged: May 17, 2014 4:14 PM ---
    If the "fatal distractions" fail, this is when people will get upset. If cheap food, entertainment, etc., become difficult to come by, the lack of "bread and circuses" will lead to restlessness.

    I'm not sure if it's planned or not, but America has really cheap food. Americans pay about a quarter of the global average on food expenditures as a percentage of income. They are also saturated in entertainment. If anything disrupts this flow, you can be sure people will get upset.

    The economics of food and entertainment is what keeps America intact. As long as the nanny state props up food producers and as long as cheap electronics (and cheap gas, etc.) stay cheap, things will be just peachy.

    Don't worry. Everyone will be all right.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2014
  10. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    I'm not sure but I think what will happen when it comes to the class problem is that people like our current president and Ms Clinton will say just enough populist rhetoric to keep the progressives in line so they will feel like they have to go along.
    Just like FDR co-opted much of the socialist parties best ideas and still supported bug business the Dems will continue to make sure the common man get more than they would if the other side was in power but not enough to challenge the status quo.

    On the other side the poor right wingers have been fed race and religion politics for so long that they don't understand the problem of class.
    In fact if class is brought up, the pundits they watch actually call it a war against 'people who have succeeded' and since every one of them want to be one of the succeeded they hate that.
    America has been divided on purpose so we don't realize there are many of us with common problems who need to band together.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Populism can be dangerous in any political stripe. (Look at Toronto's mayoralty.) When it preys on the fears of the public (especially when the fears are largely unfounded), it gives power to those who probably shouldn't have it. It is often a politics of knee-jerk reactions.

    This is a huge part of the distraction. Conservatives place all the blame of economic issues on "Big Government" or "socialism" and in turn suggest that tax cuts and deregulation will lead to prosperity for all. Even though this has all been proven false, Americans are accustomed to distrusting government and socialism (any sort of regulatory practice; the welfare state), and will in turn revere commerce and business and making one's way (rugged individualism; the American Dream). I think a lot of that is supported by a sustained delusion, whereby they blame some of the things that may help them and support some of the things that have led them to a bad place and may only make things worse. That is the kind of equation that may one day lead to fundamental change, for better of for worse.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2014
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    It was absolutely planned. Cheap food came with Nixon's Farm Bill, created by Earl Butz set it all in motion.

    America's food prices are extremely cheap.

    It can't sustain itself forever.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    We have the cheapest food in human history.
     
  14. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I figured as much. No wonder the government is so obsessed with cheap oil. The American food system must be the biggest socialist economy in the world behind the U.S. military. :D
     
  15. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    If you have netflix, watch Food Inc. and/or King Corn. These two documentaries will lay it out for you.

    And yes, for a country that sees itself as CAPATALIST, it sure does have some great subsides out there.
     
  16. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I try to stay away from documentaries. They're depressing. (I know I should get over that.)

    America is basically the inverse of modern China.

    For all the griping Tea Partiers and so-called libertarians do about "Big Government," they should at least acknowledge that that's what's basically holding the country together. To want to dismantle "Big Government" is to want to dismantle America as we know it. I'm not sure these folks know what they're seeking in their "revolution." I think they'd be unpleasantly surprised by the outcome.
     
  17. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    If they were to reduce government spending and it's size, not only would that mean a reduction in the sorts of fuel and food subsides that keep the US stable, it would also mean a huge number of jobs lost. Imagine the unemployment, with no social safety net.

    Also relevant:

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. redravin

    redravin Cynical Optimist Donor

    Location:
    North
    It's not just food, John Green does a great piece on the cotton industry and why we can get such cheap tee-shirts.
    And if anybody whines at you about us sending money to other countries, tell them about this.

     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    USA! USA! USA!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Good point. America has been dumping agricultural products of all kinds around the world for years.

    I should have said that America's agricultural system is the biggest socialist economy in the world behind its military.

    When you think about it, America has to be the most prevalent socialist entity in the world. It just follows the "socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor" strategy.
     
    • Like Like x 2