Dominant and submissive, as a complete lifestyle.

Becauseican, between your posts here and in the other thread, it sounds as though you have clear ideas of how to approach the relationship that you're wanting. It's certainly not for everyone, but hopefully the two of you will be happy.

Edit--I forgot the link.

Type A woman who is really a slave | The TFP

 

I'm not quite certain I understood everything you were saying.

However, what does leap out at me is that you seem to be arguing that it is not good to be a slave to many people, but it is good to be a slave to a single master. Monogamous slavery, if you will.

And while there may or may not be merit to that argument, my issue would still be with the very definition of a love relationship in terms of slavery and ownership. I'm not talking about the occasional bedroom game or role playing adventure, but the true embracing of this modality in every facet of the relationship.

It simply strikes me a inherently problematic, and inherently unhealthy to attempt to construct an entire relationship model wherein one partner claims ownership over the other, and the other subjugates theirselves to the one to the extent of in fact claiming the title of slave. I am primarily disturbed by the submissive partner's willingness to abnegate their own needs, their own initiative, their own voice, their own personality, even, in favor of acting as a tool of gratification or personal service to another. But I am almost equally disturbed by the dominant partner's willingness to allow-- if not actually demand-- another to so abnegate themselves for the use of another.

I fail to see how there can be healthy communication in such a relationship, or how both partners can participate in finding mature solutions to problems, fair compromises to mundane issues, or even sharing of responsibilities of mutual comfort and support in lifecycle moments-- either of a joyous or a grieving nature. There is simply far too radical a disequity-- it goes beyond mere power imbalance, it is dehumanizing. It turns an I-Thou relationship (two persons relating in the awareness of the valued personhood of one another) to an I-It relationship (two parties making use of one another in a dynamic of psychological and physiological utilitarianism).

How could two individuals in such a relationship raise a family? Even if the inherent lack of cooperation and discussion could be overcome, they would still be raising children trained to perceive relating to others as either "use" or "be used."

 

Just my thoughts. I travel a lot and go to China, Colombia, Brazil, India the first three more than the last thank god.
I am only saying this because you have no idea who I am , and I can hide behind a keyboard. In my eyes only...American Women think they have a lot of rights and want to be equal. I believed this for years, and I was all about being an equal.
I was always the dom in every relationship I had, and I felt that American men wanted a mom. I am from the Midwest though as a point of reference. The woman would all have blonde/brown hair and cut it short and wear Christmas sweaters with snowmen, or some stupid things on their sweaters. They would work all day come home, and then cook and then take care of the kids, and then do laundry and tell their husband what to do, and find various pieces of their clothing, that for some reason men cannot find on their own.
They would be about 20 pounds too heavy, and judge everyone around them, and walk around the neighborhood with a bunch of women talking about how their husbands sucked.
Then if the woman worked making 40k a year, and still did all the other stuff I described she would have her husband who made 200k a year work at the lawn all weekend, and plant flowers, and do chores.
I have been fortunate in life, and make just as much as a man, and more and on top of it am actually hot as hell. I am not saying this to brag, but because most hot females in the USA are either hairdressers or strippers. I mean really think of it...how many hot women are in power? Let's stay on topic though because I can go two hours on that topic.
My point is...when I go to other Countries the women there actually have control. We think we have this power and we are doing all the amazing things...but American women are slaves without sex. I can tell you the most take charge women are in China, they will literally stab you , or if you don't perform as a man for them you are in trouble.
The point is...I think and believe here in the States that we are making men into bitches. I do not want a bitch. I really do not like women here, and find them boring and if I was a man I would not want to talk to them either.
I am at a point in my life where I have nothing to prove...did everything in business I wanted and proved how great I am. The same thing I think men go through, and I just don't care.
I want to have a man, and I want a man to be a man. I actually enjoy it now and love the ego, and the dominating nature of men, if they can still be one. I think men now don't know what to do here in USA, and I am not saying this in a negative fashion, I don't blame them for not knowing what the hell to do. So is it really domination, or submissive we are talking about or just traditional roles that everyone else follows and USA has been mixed up with being a trend setter?
--- merged: Apr 10, 2014 at 9:41 PM ---
Levite...sorry I was typing while you were typing. My response was not to your post, but now reading it...it could have been. I will await for your response to my thread and see if their is other questions or thoughts you have regarding this subject.

 

Living in the midwest myself, I read something like this, and well wonder what the hell you are talking about. Perhaps in your own, little, isolated, section you lived in for a time this was in fact true, but really, wow, no. You have a lot of stereotypes locking into your brain it seems.

Whats funny on the one hand you say Chinese women are in charge and will STAB you if you don't act "like a man", then you say the men are bitches and their wives tell them what to do in the USA. What?

I think I'd understand this more if you just said you like to be used and left it at that, instead of trying to turn this into somehow a society thing. Its not, its a you thing, not a reaction to others thing.

 

NO? You cannot see this at all? In your house, can you share what happens? You seem to not agree with my post which is fine, but growing up in Midwest I would like to hear your ideas. You are on this site. Is this your first wife? How may kids do you have? You found nothing in my post to be true other than you heard men are bitches? The thread was not about me and my feelings of being used, but how I feel about men in USA and gender roles being crossed and how traveling I have seen different variations.
I would like to hear you thoughts and how you feel about something other than sound bites of my post, and learn from you. My being used, and loving it, and wanting my man to treat me as his toy, and not having any issue with it, was not the intention of my post.
I agree with you , and you would understand this more if I said I like being used and left it at that, it would be more comfortable for you. It's tough when people have thoughts, and I understand that, and thank you.

 

Hmmm, I haven't spent any time in the midwest so I can't say I'm an expert on the subject but 'stereotype much?'
Growing up in the frozen north may have given me a different take on things but I was raised by a feminist and I raised both my daughters to be feminists.
I have no problem strong woman, in fact the stronger my partner is the stronger I am.

You ever watch an action movie and notice that the hero is always the most badass when he's got a partner who is just about as tough as he is?
The worst ones are when they have to drag the stupid woman around and keep saving them all the time.
I'm sorry give me a woman who can kick ass and take names, then come into my bed.

Being a sub is much more than, hey I'm just a slave and the man is in charge.
And being a man is much more than bossing woman around.
People are complicated and can't be relegated to stereotypes.

 

I think I can see where becauseican is coming from. First of all, to become a slave is to make a choice. She chooses her role. She could choose to end it any time. Which also means her master better perform as well. He has his responsibilities to live up to. As far as how much this goes into her personal and professional life, I don't know. But she is willing to accept that. I'm sure she could choose to end it at any time.
I can see what she is saying about a man taking charge. And I'm not saying it's for everyone. But I have known women that want A Man. They want to feel that when they are in bed, he is much stronger, more powerful, and in charge. They want a bit of the beast. Not to be used and left unsatisfied, but to feel like they are being swept along. That they are not in complete control. But that they are safe. I used to worry about being too forceful in bed. That I was too heavy on them. But I realize now that some women like that feeling of being pinned down. They like feeling a man on top of them. They like his arms wrapped around them, pinning them down. They like the sweat and the grunts. They know that they are pleasing their man. And this doesn't happen every time. There is a bit of give and take, and a bit of play. But sometimes the mood is right, and that is what they need.

 

100 percent agree with you. The hero is most badass when he has a partner, but that badass was a man and I am guessing the women was strong but let him be a badass. I am the last person who wants to be run over by a man, or thinks women should be in a kitchen, and should not voice their concerns...in fact the last woman on earth who would think that ever. I like this thread and appreciate we are talking and discussing things, and I can't change anyones view, nor do I want to...I don't need anyone to think like me , and everyone has their own ideas based on every experience they have had , and it makes us unique, and have different ideas.
My idea of giving myself to my partner, and man that I want to give everything to, and would be his sex slave, not domestic slave mind you...lol and we have talked about it in length...
I look at it from a loving point of view, and one where I respect him, and want him to own me heart mind, and body. In my World, he does not share me with others, and we talk openly, and the part where he commands me, and has me in various positions and uses me as a foot stool while reading the paper...are things we both talked about and are turn ons...why? I have no idea why I want him to tell me he is using me , and he owns me, and he pushes my head down on his cock at random...and I like it.. I have no idea why that is a turn on for me, maybe because everyone else treated me with kit gloves, no clue.
It does not mean for me, that I have no idea in my head and he just kicks me and makes me clean floors. Why does it have to be one total extreme, or the other? You can't have a man own you , and have boundaries that you both set, and maybe once in awhile you test them to see if you like something , and if you do not like it you talk to one another and change what you are doing or find out something in yourself that makes you uncomfortable.
If you have someone you want to give everything to because that is your expression of love, and he does not take advantage of it but appreciates it, and you both talk about your fantasies, and believe me some thoughts are just that....fantasy's.. never to be acted upon and you both understand each other, is that bad?
If I tell my husband...I want you to duck tape my mouth, and want a rape fantasy that would make me hot, and we agree that I should only wear skirts or dresses so he can finger me randomly whenever he wants everyday...I am crazy? I have a mental disorder because I want my husband to own my body, and I want him to make choices for our family, and I give him my heart and soul, and body anytime, anywhere he wants. I tell him he is my master, and the only man I would spread my legs for ever...and that means...that we can't talk or live a normal life?
I see myself as a slave because I do not own my body it is his and I give myself to him 100 percent always.
--- merged: Apr 11, 2014 4:19 AM ---
I keep writing while really insightful people are posting on the thread! Thank you Omega, and yes I am trying to say what you can say so much better.
I take what you are saying with a little more extreme to it but from the place your are talking about, and it's not about peeing on me and whipping me because I did not scrub a bathtub correctly...not that I am saying that is wrong and if that gets you hot...then rock on. I can only speak from what turns me on, and trying to express it, and also figure it out as well. I don't have the answers, and no idea why it makes me hot this man, and only this man "use" me at random, and wearing stupid outfits that would make him hot and me as well...but there is a time and place for everything.
Do I see this as 24/7 ...no it's not practical for us, but in my heart the premise does not go away because we are around people...I will wear my collar that looks normal but we know, and when we are at our vacation home then all bets are off, and when we are at the family house then no I am not coming out in but plugs and ropes.
But what is important to me, and I cannot speak for others, is that he owns me regardless if I have clothes on or in a meeting, that I feel we have that connection, and I know what he does to my heart, mind , and body...and we go to that special place together, and stay connected always.

 

If you feel that dominance is for you my advice is get married my life went out the window 30 years ago just as soon as i said i do . Example 1, I love you the (she really means as soon as you say yes im gonna fucking change you . 2, I love your quirky little ways . ( just give me time i will soon take the smile of your fuckin grid . SEX ha thats a laugh the only time i get my legover now is if shes asleep nar keep the dom /sub role taint my cup of tea.
--- merged: Apr 23, 2014 at 1:06 PM ---
I tried that dom stuff on my wife ages ago i said hey bitch you want to try some ruff sex ? i ended up losing 2 teeth and looked like a pander with my 2 black eyes

 

Pretty funny, I guess.
But, as I'm sure you know from reading the thread, not what we're talking about at all.

If you are serious, by the way, have you tried talking to your wife?
She might not be into rough sex but she might be into some variations.

 

There's a country song called (approximately) "I'm married to a woman who can kick my ass," but I couldn't find it on YouTube.

 

Umm...not sure how to respond to this other than talk about how I feel. I do not feel like a sub/dom exchange is about rough sex, (or ruff , and you posted). It is not like I want any man to say hey slut I own you. It does not work for me that way, and there is a ton of psychology behind it for me, and finding someone who I actually could submit to and wanted to naturally. I am sure it is different for everyone for me it's about giving my heart and body 100 percent, and giving up control, and trusting someone that much.

 

Look, some people might think I am a bit of a prude, and to be honest I am. I can't tell everybody what is best for them and be really sure that Im right, but to me a REAL "master/mistress vs slave" thing seems unhealthy, damaging (or reinforcing damage), and artificial.

I am not saying that playing a game, in which you exchange power with someone within agreed boundaries, might not be fun and sexy to a lot of people. But that ain't a complete lifestyle.

Insofar as my own tastes go:

I would feel very uncomfortable hitting a woman, even if its with the flat of the hand on the arse and she "likes it". I have gone as far as handcuffs before and it didnt do much for me, but if the other person is clearly into it you can take enjoyment from seeing them being into it, but I would draw the line at striking a blow.

As for me being the slave and getting walloped, the idea just doesn't excite me at all. I might enjoy a woman taking charge and being "on top", but I would't want or accept anyone hitting without doing something about it. If its a woman hitting me I can't really hit her back, so it would just infuriate me even more. I don't think I could tolerate it emotionally, the idea of taking a blow and not doing nothing about it, like I'm some kind of bitch that somebody can just do what they want to... to be honest just typing it is kind of making me feel aggressive and tense around the shoulders.

But I am a bit of prude. So if other people's limits go to enjoying having a whack on the arse, or a nipple tweaked... I don't see that as bad, as long as both people are cool with it and neither party is pressuring the other into it. It just isn't for me. But what I do see as hugely negative is somebody dominating another person to the point that they control that person's will, make them do things they don't want to, etc etc. And I find it equally problematic that a person would want to surrender themselves to it, not take responsibility for themselves and their interaction but just be weak and passive and slavish.

Like I said, or meant to say, I dont mean to offend people who like this sort of thing to the extent that its game playing. But if a person's idea of fun is to control and bully and hurt - I think that person is dangerous and had anti-social tendancies. If you are the type of person who would enjoy being bullied, controlled or hurt, I think you need a different kind of help.

Just my view - and call me wrong by all means if you feel I am.

 

OK
I got to admit i was just joking i like most people in the world live a very ordinary life nothing outside the norm (whatever the norm is ) if i called my wife a bitch i probably would lose a couple of teeth . My philosophy is enjoy the time you have here, try to be tolerant towards others
personalty i couldnt be a dom and DEFINITELY not a sub , but anything that floats ya boat go for it , same goes for gay people if your happy thats cool but please dont make out theres something wrong with being straight you are what you are , Goodnight nice people .

 

You both bring up good points. I don't view a sub/dom role as what you described. I have read a ton of posts over the past 20 years not really knowing what turned me on, and trying to understand my body.
I do not want a man to tell me to clean the floors, and beat me when I do not clean a toilet correctly. I think it's about knowing yourself and talking to your partner, the man or woman you trust, and someone you finally found, and want to give the person everything .
I understand some women, I have read want to be passed around, and that is ownership to them with a master. I guess I am more of a "love based" sub....who wants to be with her master, and have him and only him test limits, but the limits we have talked about in length as Adults. I think you can read a lot of things, and what Sub/Dom is for some...but I love certain parts, and other parts hell no.
Isn't it really like any relationship, and you talk your partner about your love, desire, fantasy's?

 

Yes. What you've described in your last couple of posts sounds much more like love and trust than a D/s lifestyle.

 

You can't have both? Can a sub/dom relationship be loved based
I want to drink his bath water, and give him everything but from a place of love. I am only talking about my thoughts, but I want him to be the master, but I also do not want to be shared, and he owns me and ownership to me is....it's his only.
I want him to control my day, and put outfits out for me for his pleasure, and have me for his play thing all day, and whatever he wants. For me...I did not share my big wheel when young, and I do not want another man to touch me. I do not believe if a man really loves someone, he wants to see a man fucking his woman. That is just my thought process.
I also understand marriage, and time...so would I have a woman with me, and we both suck his cock? I have no idea, but I do have a stead fast rule in my head that he can only touch me, and I am his. I can say that 100 percent. The other things...no idea , and I take it as it happens, and see what we both feel.

 

I know nothing about D/s relationships as a lifestyle. I started this thread hoping to learn more, out of curosity not desire.

From what you're describing, you're wanting to maintain a fair amount of control. I'm guessing that at long as both parties are in agreement, a D/s relationship can be clearly defined with the s setting limits. I don't see how every possible scenario could be addressed in advance.

Obviously the right to refuse certain activities is importnat for safety reasons. But at what point does the s have too much say in what happens? Wouldn't that take away from the point of one party being D and the other party being s?