Interesting "what would you do?" video on bullying.

Borla, I'll need to answer the questions when I'm feeling better. Please forgive the digression, it is somewhat related.

Since my wife is a teacher, we've discussed bullying a few times. When I was in school we had the usual garden variety bullies who usually didn't do much without their pack of friends (I'm intentionally not calling them a gang because they weren't a gang). There was the occasional sadist who would act alone, who didn't need an audience to enjoy tormenting someone, but they were rare.

The worst bullies were the kids from screwed-up homes. I'm talking absentee dads & moms, parents that were alcoholics, drug addicts, prostitutes, scizophrenics, plenty of physical and emotional abuse, etc. These weren't the kids who needed friends for backup, they wouldn't backoff if someone stood up to them, hell they wouldn't backoff even if they got their ass kicked (a rare occurance, they grew up fighting & had no fear of physical pain). The only thing they knew and respected was violence.

 

I was bullied to the point of near suicide day in and day out for the majority of my youth. I was picked on, called names, laughed at, pushed down stairs, pushed, shoved, tripped, spit on, drawn on, had things thrown at me, spilled on me, my belongings ruined, gum put in my hair, and so on and so on and so on. I complained daily. To my parents. To my teachers, To the school principal. They all said the same thing. If I ignored it, it would stop. It didn't. For the love of god , if you are a parent - don't you DARE tell a child if they ignore it it will stop. Get up off your ass and do something, if the school wont do something, go to the school board, if they wont do anything, take your kid out of school before they are emotionally damaged beyond all hope of recovery, or before they do they only thing they can think of to make it stop. PLEASE.

It didn't stop for me until High School. No they - the bullies - didn't out grow out of it it, not by a long shot. I started working when I was 13. Saved every penny. Enrolled MYSELF in a self defense class the summer before freshman year, and started lifting weights. If I wasn't at work that summer, I was at class or in the gym. It took halfway through freshman year for me to finally crack. As a grand and glorious gift to me, I was assigned a locker 3 down from the worst of the jerks that had bothered me all my school life. My locker for all 4 years. He said too much one day. The ringleader. End of the day, flanked by two of his idiot buddies, he started in on me like he had every day for the length of memory. I dropped my books, hauled back, and let him have it. I landed a punch backed with over a decade's worth of anger behind it, square on his nose. Picked up my books and turned and left the building, leaving him and his broken nose and absolutely ruined white shirt & sweater behind me. Word spread. No one bothered me for the remainder of my high school years. No I did not get into any trouble. Not for the "fight" nor for breaking his nose.

Every time I see some fuckwit kid has gone to school and shot up the place then killed themselves on the news, I lean back in my chair and think to myself "There but for the grace...... Because it very well could have ended that way. Very very easily. I grew up in a house full of firearms, and the bullies pushed me far beyond the brink of my sanity time and time again. My bullies didn't come from bad homes. They came from privilege and excess. They worked both in packs and alone. Learning "tricks of the trade" from each other and developing their own personal forms of torment, and sharing.

Not everyone has the wherewithal to bide their time and do what they need to to shut down a bully. But please. I appeal with great sincerity to the parents among you. Bullying is NOT ok. Picking on people is NOT ok. Its not funny. It's NOT. If you have children that complain about their treatment by other children, or complain about the abject refusal of the powers that be at their school to STOP their torment, DO SOMETHING. Get off your damned ass and DO SOMETHING. Do NOT tell them to turn the other cheek, that it will stop if they ignore it - it WON'T. All that does, is give the bullies incentive to try HARDER to generate some kind of a response.

 

I would have stepped in and tried to stop it.

In grade school, I was bullied quite a bit. There was no reason for it other than I was good sport -- smallish, bad temper, and ready to get beaten. Bunch of smart ass rich kids taking it to the poor kid with no Dad. Years later, one of them was arrested in California for the murder of his fiance.

Last year my daughter was caught up in a bullying situation where she was on of the bullies (more nasty notes than anything physical). My wife teaches at her school and teaches her grade (five). The other teachers of grade five (all people I know and socialize with) were on it. They managed to get the group of girls together and they worked it out. You can believe that her Mom and I had a number of long conversations with her about it as well. Nipped in the bud from all angles. The girls all hang out together now.

 

I always long to see these public pranks end in a bystander beating the shit out of the clowns involved. (and every now and again it does). I appreciate that there may be a serious question behind all this, but this video to me isn't a very appropriate way to make it. To me, I wouldn't class what was linked as much different to MTV Jackass or Punk'd or whatever such shows.

As for the question, I think two things.

1, It is probably a given that a lot more people on any internet forum will tell you that they would step in and spark the guy out than really would, so you can take that into account in my answer too.

2, Honestly, if it is was, and it was two dudes who I dont know, I wouldn't get involved. It isn't my business, I don't know that someone ain't gonna pull a knife, I don't know what caused it and who is in the wrong. It might not be what I think is necessarily morally right, but it is what I would do. I'd be a passer by, unless it was really getting out of hand.
If it was a woman getting roughed up by a man, I probably would step in (a couple of times in my life I have got into things like that... once I threatened a guy with a golf club because he slapped his girlfriend, and once I threw some guys bike into a river and had a bit of handbags with him because I didn't like the way he spoke to a girl in a pub beer garden. To be honest I don't think in either case my actions helped the situation)

 

I think the difference between this and Punk'd is in the intent. I don't know if this is really going to do anything but make people think about how they would act, but at least that's something. I think you're probably right that most people would claim to do something, even if they really wouldn't. But that's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe the introspection will change how someone will actually react, if they've never put any thought into it. I'd like to say that I'd be one to step in and try to help. If it ever happens, maybe remembering that I just said this will give me the force of will to actually do it.

On a side note, welcome back @Strange Famous

 

What do you think you would've done if you witnessed the scenario played out in that video?
Hard to say--I would like to think I'd jump in and protect the weak against the aggressor, as I've been trained, but at the same time, consider that in an uncontrolled environment, this guy could very well be packing a weapon, or have nothing to lose. As a CCW'er, I know I would step in. On campus (where carry is illegal), I would require back-up from a friend who isn't a stranger to scrappin.' Just realize that in real life, it would probably result in broken noses and some blood loss from both parties.


Have you ever been in a situation like that, if so, how did you react?
Kitty Genovese comes to mind. Was at a plaza one day when a lady (in what appeared to be a DV incident) yelled out "Call the Cops!" from her apartment balcony. Most of the spectators simply stared on, and I finally called the cops, as I didn't want to be the one who stood by while her husband was presumably throwing shit at her (I saw what appeared to be glass or ice falling from the balcony).

As a teenager, yes, I was bullied. I'd give them shit right back or get physical, but never really stood up to them and fought it out. I slapped one, and almost sparred with another. In retrospect, I probably should have fought back and given them a taste of their own blood. It's like in lawyer-land: big lawyers don't want to get in to extended, bloody, and drawn ought fights with the little guys because it sucks and nobody wins. Once the little guy takes a pound of flesh, the bigger guy is hesitant to go back in for more.

Have you ever been a bully?
Not entirely.

 

The Kitty Genovese story did not unfold the way you imagine. The notion that dozens of bystanders watched and did nothing while a woman was murdered is almost 100% urban legend.

 

I've been meaning to respond to this thread with my meager thoughts but I'll throw a couple things out first:

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I think he's referring to the urban legend. He has a law degree.

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As far as the thread goes:

Relevant - Witness Perception and the Use of Force

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Heh, looks like a little Devil's Advocate is in order:

Wow, that's way too gung ho for me, brother. Regardless of training and equipment, you aren't a psychic or invulnerable. The two things that I think about in the back of my mind when coming upon something like this is, "Do I really know what is going on?" and "Am I going to fuck up the rest of my life for total stranger?" Using the article I linked above as a reference, unless I knew the people involved and had observed the entire situation (obvious scenarios aside), I'd be extremely hesitant to get involved in any type of altercation--just too much I can't control. I'll help you change a flat tire in the rain, I'll put a tourniquet on your leg if you get in a bad car crash, but I'm sure as hell not wading into some type of fisticuffs as a third party where I have to guess which person deserves to get their ass beat ("Good, bad--I'm the guy with the gun.") or which party is going to try to harm me for getting involved. How many police officers on DV calls get clocked by angry wives for trying to stop their drunk husband from beating them? That kinda stuff. I don't want to be a wet blanket but I'll hit 911 and let the people in the dust cloud know that the cops are on their way. Total strangers just aren't worth getting shanked for or lawsuit'd over.

Rule #1 of being a Grown-Ass Man: Make it home alive.

That said, I'll end with this:

 

I was in high school around age 16 when I came across a situation similar to the one in the video. One kid was holding another kid while screaming "faggot," "pussy," and throwing punches. The attacker was bigger and I didn't know him, the victim was smaller and it was rumored that he was gay. I didn't know them, personally, but I had first-hand knowledge of what it was like to be bullied and I saw something I could stop. I was 6'4" or so, the bully was a good half a foot shorter than me, so I just came up behind him and bear-hugged him and yelled "Stop!" while the victim was able to get back on his feet and teachers got there. They yelled at me to let go of him, so I did, and pulled me aside to ask what happened. I said something along the lines of "he was beating him up and calling him a fag, so I pulled him away." The teachers talked among themselves for a few seconds, told me that I shouldn't get physical with other students, but that I wasn't in any trouble and should get to class. In college, the bully likely would have ended up in a similar bear hug until he pointed out the camera.

I've fortunately never been in a situation that's come to physical violence since, although I did once grab a guy by the arm and suggest that he apologize to a friend toward whom he made a very crude remark., I have, however, come to appreciate the value of telling a potential aggressor "hey, stop" or asking a potential victim "are you OK?" or "is everything OK?" while directing the question to both. I've been told by friends and acquaintances who volunteer at local domestic violence shelters that simply asking "are you OK?" can be enough to defuse that kind of situation. and offer a potential victim a way out .

basically, triumph of evil, good men do nothing, high school sucks, all those moral lessons rolled into one.

 

What do you think you would've done if you witnessed the scenario played out in that video?
I would intervene in the video, but it's hard to say exactly what I would do. Partially depends on the time of the month (sorry ladies, but for some of us that is true).

Have you ever been in a situation like that, if so, how did you react?
My little sister was being bullied by her now-ex husband around 25 years ago. I grabbed him by the hair and tried to break a car window by repeatedly bouncing his head off it while yelling obscenities at the SOB. He didn't fight back when I finally stopped. I think he was a tad dizzy.

Have you ever been a bully?
Hell no. I strongly dislike bullies.

Have you ever been bullied? If so, how did you respond or get help?
A guy attempted to bully me at a school dance when I was a teenager. It was mostly verbally, lewd remarks. I ended it with a high heel shoe to his jaw. He was too dizzy to continue.

As for my main bully, as of May I’m divorced with absolutely no desire to date ever again. There was a lot more going on than I blogged. He is much better now that the VA has his meds’ dosages correct, but with his TBI and PTSD it is never a sure thing.