sex and female assertiveness.

I initially posted much of this on the 'females' thread, but I thought it might be interesting to break it off into its own thread.

Two things this thread is not about:
1. Your wife or girlfriend who instigates sexual relations with you.
2. Nymphomaniacs (ie, women who engage in 'joyless fucking').

What this thread is about:
Single women who are sexually assertive. They might be called forward, aggressive, rapacious, cougars, predatory, slutty. Usually bad things. In fact, I don't know of any positive descriptors for them other than 'sex-positive' but that term is not specifically about personal sexual activity - rather a general attitude toward sex. (Maybe we can come up with some in the process. )

Here is what I wrote on the other thread:

So, tell me.

How do you feel about women who pursue sex with men outside of committed relationships?

Does a woman's sexual assertiveness affect whether you would consider a committed relationship with her?

Has your opinion of sexually assertive women changed over the years? For better or for worse?

Do you think that female sexual assertiveness is immoral? Is it a danger to society?

You may answer those questions or just speak about the subject in general. Let's see what happens.

 

When I was single, I spent a lot of time dating women who were 10-15 years older than I was (I was in my 20s, they were usually early to mid-30s, with one in her 40s). Being more mature, they were also more assertive and I found that totally enthralling. And they were amazing lovers as well (with a capital A). There are few things sexier, in my opinion, than a woman who knows herself, and is confident in her own skin. Confidence has been shown to be extremely attractive to both sexes, and that's certainly true for me.

Life's too short to waste energy on morons. And I believe that we all get past an age where we shouldn't feel the need to explain or justify ourselves. If you're enjoying healthy and mutually satisfying relationships/experiences with younger men, then you (and they) should do what works for you. Who cares what anyone else thinks?

 

"Cougar" did me annoy me, especially when they made a show with the word cougar in it's title. I don't watch much TV but that guaranteed that I'd not ever watch that one.

Seeing the phrase overused, it began to lose it's meaning but even before that, I did what I do with words that offend me and/or hurt me. I took the power away from the word. I made it a reflection of the person using it. I distanced myself from it as I do with many things/people that annoy me. I just shut it off--sort of like deleting an offensive email.

There are times that this is more of a challenge--when I give a fuck about the person using the offending language. Like I used to let my ex offend and hurt me when he called me "fat" (it mattered not to him if I was actually carrying extra pounds at the time--he knew I was sensitive to the word). I was* later a size acceptance or fat activist and the word now means nothing except you know, adipose. And it is not a good descriptor of an entire person, anyway. A person isn't fat--they have fat on them.
A woman is not a cougar. A woman is a woman.

*After about ten years I realized that being a healthy weight meant I'd have to continue the struggle to keep my weight down--so I stopped advocating fit at any size because it no longer applied to me --and some others, too.

 

I prefer the term "Dirty Old Lady" to cougar, it doesn't carry the same predatory connotation. I'm fine with sexually assertive women, us clueless introverts need to get laid somehow.

 

I think whether women pursue sex in the context of committed relationship or not is none of my business. I tend to think committed relationship are healthier, in general, but there are absolutely exceptions to that rule. Other than that, I am not really sure I care, or that I should care.

I absolutely do not think female sexual assertiveness is either immoral or dangerous. No one's sexual assertiveness, regardless of gender, is immoral or dangerous, so long as it is contextualized by consensual sex and respectful behavior. I have always thought so, and I am not about to change thinking so.

Over and above this: sexually assertive women, of any age, are hot. I have always thought so. To my mind, sexual assertiveness, self-confidence and self-integrity, high intellect and sharp sense of humor are the four pillars of the ideal female personality. They are what I have always gone for, always found more hot than anything else. I like people who are powerfully themselves, and unafraid to show it: probably that's what attracted me to acting (I started off as an actor, long before I became a rabbi). Nothing is hotter than a woman like that.

Oh, and FWIW, I don't mind the term "cougar" if used with approbation, appreciation, or humor. But then, it's not getting directed at me, so....

 

Well, I don't care what anyone else thinks about me. I care about how people think in general. I like looking at the way people think and then questioning it. I do this with myself all the time, so it's not just an outwardly directed thing. I think it's healthy to breakdown and restructure neuronal pathways. We forget that we have the ability to change. (reverie: Levite's Bible thread post)

My purpose with this thread was just to get people to talk about it. But I gather the subject is either 1) not very interesting or 2) one of those 'if you can't say something nice' things. I hope it's the former because people sharing contrary opinions won't bother me as long as they aren't an attempt to mischaracterize something I've said here. That does get my dander up.

I am comfortable in my own skin. More comfortable than I have been in many, many years. I should have started down this path at the end of my last marriage - it would have saved me a lot of needless trouble. I don't see myself ever going back to a traditional relationship model. Perhaps maybe someday an open arrangement of some sort will avail itself to me, but I feel like I was meant to be polyamorous. All along. I know I can't be the only one.

 

How do you feel about women who pursue sex with men outside of committed relationships?
I think it's a lot less common than it would be in an ideal society in which people were free to do what they wanted. Props to those who are willing to admit what they want, but nothing against those who wish they could but aren't comfortable doing it. It's also not for everyone, so nothing against those women who aren't interested, either.

Does a woman's sexual assertiveness affect whether you would consider a committed relationship with her?
Yes. My political and social views are no secret, and strong, assertive women are my "type," if I had to define one. Earlier this year I had a first date with a friend of a friend who was exactly that type of woman after she asked me out. When we were leaving, I did the wishy washy move where you're not 100% sure whether you're going for a kiss on the lips or a kiss on the cheek, and after a slightly awkward hug she grabbed me and kissed me with great enthusiasm. It's a good thing I shared her enthusiasm because I probably would have lost the hair she grabbed me by if I had tried to pull away. I would be a very happy man if every woman who was interested in me showed that same assertiveness.

Has your opinion of sexually assertive women changed over the years? For better or for worse?
For better. Years of being Catholic and shedding Catholic Guilt tend to shape you in that way.

Do you think that female sexual assertiveness is immoral? Is it a danger to society?
Yes, both. It challenges the constructed notion of morality that society as a whole has come to adopt, and endangers traditional notions of gender, gender relations, patriarchy, etc. Even if you've never read another one of my posts, you can probably gather that I think that subverting traditional morality and societal constructs regarding gender are good things.

 

You, sir, are an iconoclast and a gentleman. Much love to you.

 

All of which is why you shouldn't bother with the opinions of morons, dear lady. I try to measure the source; I try not to care about the idiotic ramblings of numbskulls (though perhaps I'm being kind to some of these guys).

This can be a crude sort of control mechanism for some men, especially when they're threatened by a woman with intelligence, and assertiveness. When faced with a lack of imagination, they resort to demeaning comments, typically focusing on the woman's sexuality. In most cases, I'd bet that it's a poor attempt to cover up their own inadequacies.

They strike me as cavemen throwing stones at the moon. Can't reach it, can't join it, so knock it down.

 

I appreciate all that, but I don't bother with the opinions of morons. It's the opinions of thoughtful people that I'm interested in.

 

I've never seen the label, Cougar, as negative. It was an amusing term, but, from my eyes, empowering. I suppose though, it has become weighted with negativity and is just a slut-shaming label for older women.

I would embrace the term. Cougars are fucking cool.

 

Maybe if I append -fabulous on it I will like it better. Cougar-fabulous.

 

I cannot begin to tell you how sick I am of the double standard. I dont think most men would embrace being called a dirty old man, nor find it "empowering".

My experience is somewhat limited, but I have often found that men who purport free sexuality for both sexes do not necessarily want that in their mate. Of course, if one is not looking for a mate, who cares?!

 

Cougar-licious.

But then, I have enough to eat at home...

 

I don't know about empowering; but I doubt many guys would find it insulting.

 

Annnnd I can't edit my post because for some reason it won't let me fix this. Sorry girldetective
This is how it's supposed to be:

I completely agree with this. The double standard boils my blood. It makes me want to start my own male strip club/Restaurant and call it Dicks (ya know, like Hooter's) when I'm a really old lady.