Politics The Politics, Economics, and Ethics of Hunting

Wow, turns out to be less urban legend and more actually showed it on TV. Her dad, life long hunter, used his rifle as a walking stick? WTF! She hot triggered a weapon someone handed her? Whoa, first lesson shit. She's a phoney.

The only exception to the link your posted I would take is-

Soooo, umm... wealthy people shouldn't go harvest their own meat? They should pay others to bring them chemically injected, hormone laden meat other people killed in slaughter houses? Should wealthy people avoid gardening as well? Nice logic there.

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Ok the squeak on the vid gets old but that's a pretty common scam, doesn't sound like Palin had anything to do with it.

On the meat issue, yes another thread. But let me just say this as my final comment. I respect someone willing to farm and raise their own or hunt their own meat then folks who don't and bitch about those who do. Wild game is healthy for you, less fat, zero chemicals etc... I once took off Thanksgiving week to elk hunt. When i returned to my office a co-worker/friend asked me if I "got my elk?" There was a young lady sitting in the break room eating a hamburger from McDonalds who quickly asked "what does it mean "get your elk?" I told her I took the week off to hunt and fill my elk tag, which I did. "So you shot a poor helpless elk?" She continued to stuff her face with her burger and started to chew me out for killing poor innocent creatures. I listened for a while then asked if she knew "where her lunch came from, or her leather hand bag, or her leather jacket." Nope, nope and nope.. "that's not the point." "Then what is the point? I know exactly where my meat comes from and I donate the hide to the local lodge who turns them into work gloves for a "special needs" charity."

That's all I have to say about that.
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I guess I have one more thing to add... this is not true. I know of no state where it's legal to buy and sell wild game. If you want wild game you have to legally harvest it yourself. You can buy farm raised Elk and Deer but actual wild game must be harvested by the family who consumes it.

 

My point is why do you care what a wealthy person does as a hobby? I mean I could see if their hobby was illegal, even if it were unethical. But hunting is neither. Seriously I know a guy who made millions in the fishing industry. Mostly by trucking live crab to San Fran. Bay area then L.A. The guy pretty much pioneered how to ship live seafood. His technology is currently being used in several countries. His whole family hunts. They garden too. Hell he makes his own beer and wine. Why does it have to be a financial reason? If you think people hunt because it's a cheap way to feed your family you know jack about hunting because usually after you buy the gear and the tags you could easily buy the meat.

We should maybe split this off into it's own thread.

 

i've been to a store in michigan where you can buy deer, elk, alligator, there was a couple other crazy gamey meats that i can't remember. i guess alligator could be farm raised but i haven't heard of it.

 

You ever been to Florida?

3 Ways to Start an Alligator Farm - wikiHow

 

I have no issue with people hunting so long as they are not just trophy hunting.

 

Agreed. And those assholes who go to Africa and elsewhere to shoot 'big game'? Well, they are assholes.

 

Those folks erk me more then the people who eat meat and give me crap about hunting. I sat on plane once next to a guy who went on an on about his African safari. His story was something like "there we were, driving real quietly in our Land Rover and suddenly there was a whole herd. We all got out, quiet like you know, the three of us managed to drop five before they all scattered." "Wow, so you drove quiet and killed three antelope?" "No, no we got five, five I tell ya. Was the best day hunting I've ever had." "So dry ice the meat and send it home?" "Naw, you can't do that, meat goes bad before you get back to camp in that heat. I am getting the head stuffed, costing me four grand. Sending it right back to my place in Houston. Gonna hang it right over my fireplace... whether the wifey likes it or not." Oh, yeah.. you're a man among men, jackass.
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Yeah, what she said too.

If you're going to hunt use the whole animal. In many states you can, will be in Oregon, Washington and Idaho cited for "Wanton waste of a game animal" if you shoot something and do not pack it out entirely. In Oregon if they catch you shooting, grabbing the horns and leaving the rest the best thing you can expect is to lose your rifle and your vehicle. On your second charge man. jail time. I've sat in court and heard guys lose $40,000 4X4's and thought, good... dumb ass.
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Seriously, fuck these guys-

The Dallas Safari Club Is Trying To Preserve The Black Rhino By Killing A Black Rhino | Texas Monthly

 

I don't consider most "Glampers" hunters. The people I've come across with all the latest gear and micro fiber whatever will likely never get an elk. They might stumble upon a rare buck but a bull elk? Not likely. Sure someone gets lucky and an elk walks into their camp... it happens. But even for those of us who go out and hump the brush for months prior to the season(s), Oregon has two elk seasons, and during the season in our surplus store wool pants and coats and return to our surplus wall tents at night hunting is not cheap. Chicken is cheaper by far. Getting an elk takes time and gas. I added up just the gas, ammo, you better make sure it's sighted in, and a case of MRE's and I think even though I got my elk on day 3 it came to about $25, that's if I consider my time is worth $10 an hour. If not then it's $15 a pound. And that's not including the wear and tear it put on my truck, turns out coastal elk don't hang out on nice roads. You can get good meat for $15 a pound.

 

Is this because one "wastes" the animal and the other doesn't?

(you knew I'd pop up in this thread...)
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I'm not going to pretend to know this is true. Is it true anymore?

 

Yes. Yes, I knew.

And, in the simplest of terms: Yes, because killing and not eating is a waste.

 

I actually don't approve of hunting, unless it's for survival reasons. I think it is inflicting needless harm on wild animals, and making a sport out of blood cruelty. To say nothing of supporting a culture that glorifies guns and shooting.

For the record, I also don't believe in factory farming or other such ways we are cruel to domesticated food animals, either. When there are instances of such unethical behavior among kosher meat producers, I protest them aggressively and often; and I support efforts to combat them among non-kosher meat producers.

If one is so enamored of the experience of tracking an animal through the wilderness, then take pictures of it instead of shooting it. Or if you have to shoot it, shoot it with a paintball gun that fires non-toxic, water-soluble paints.

I hear that some of the hunters here are at least more thoughtful and responsible than most hunters, and I respect that. But IMO, it's not enough to justify hunting in a world where, as @Baraka_Guru says, organic, free-range, humanely-raised and ethically slaughtered meat can be delivered to your door. And where there are so many other activities and games that can give you the pleasure of being outdoors or the chance to hone tracking skills.

 

I have no problem with hunting, whether for sport or for meat. Now in my job most of the guys hunt and most will eat the meat. If they manage to get a bear tag I doubt they will eat that. But you have to wait years to get a bear tag. Mow I'll explain why I'm ok with hunting. Most of the money for land management comes from hunting and fishing fees. The key word is management. There are a limited amount of tags available for certain species. If you cut all that out, where is that money going to come from? You complain about it being a rich man's hobby. Well for better or worse, rich people have power and influence. So they end up protecting more wild areas due to their self interest. For the people I work with, its part of their annual enjoyment. They get out with friends and family, they have a bond that is followed through families. Now when I do go hunting someday I will look into donating some or all of the meat to a soup kitchen. One last comment. A lot of hunters are also environmentalists. And money talks.

 

For realz? I love some flank steak. So good marinated.

 

This "inflicting needless harm" you speak of makes me curious exactly how much you know about hunting. I mean I can only think of one time where I didn't deliver a kill shot that dropped the animal and it died instantly. So what they do on humane farms or free range businesses is more humane? How so?

And "organic, free-range, humanely-raised and ethically slaughtered meat can be delivered to your door." What's more free range then a animal born and raised in the wild? And again what do you think hunters do, chase down poor animals and run them until their out of breath then slowly stab them to death? Most animals will immediately exit an area if they even get a scent of humans in the area. You're not chasing an elk or deer or any other wild creature through his territory and catch him. An elk can do about 40mph up a 30% grade, good luck with that. I used to take my elk clothes and keep them sealed in a bags all year with fern leaves and cedar to keep them from selling like "Tide." So every time I've taken an elk (or deer, stopped hunting deer when the family stopped liking it and I got good enough at elk hunting to get one every year) he's been standing or walking along without the knowledge I'm even there, then I shoot him and he drops. You think they have a farm somewhere where they treat the animals nicely and have a nice way to make them dead? I have no idea why you object that I'm the one delivering the meat to my door rather than UPS.
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I hated the bear I had, the one and only time I ever had so I've never bear hunted. Tasted like gristle and very fatty.
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I had a big garden out in Astoria. I have five acres there and ended up using a good 1/2 acre on a garden. The soil on my hill was so bad the first year produced nothing, not one ear of corn, not one tomato. The land had been logged and the stripped off all the top soil hauling off the timber. So year #2 I brought in truck loads of mature and some dark soil. Was not cheap. I probably spent 3K on it total. Due to the size of the property I bought a used John Deere, used ones are not cheap. So another 10K. After that I raised really nice crops. I saw a sign at the local food bank "grow a row for us" one spring so I did. A 75 foot row of corn and an equal one of tomatoes. I took tomatoe through out the year as they ripened. Every once and awhile they'd say ""Ok, how many tomatoes do you have?" But they took them. When I took down the corn in the fall it filled the bed of my truck. They looked at it and said "Whoa, what are we suppose to do with all this?" "Umm, feed people?" "No, no it's just too much." "Well call other food banks and spread the wealth." "Yeah, we're really not tied into any other banks, we could maybe take 2 or 3 boxes but don't have room for more." I took the other 20-25 boxes to the local store and asked the owner, who was also the guy who made my elk burger and summer sausage for me, "want some corn?" He came out and looked at it and asked "how much?" "free better you then the hog farm." He took it. The next day I noticed corn had gone from 5 ears for a dollar to 20... he also never charged me to process my elk burger or sausage ever again. I only hunted and farmed there for another two years as I crushed my leg then moved to Mexico. So I figure I spent about 15-16K on fresh veggies for a maximum five years. I could have bought organic veggies easy for that. But there's nothing like wanting a salad and walking out your back door and picking it and eating with in and hour or so. I've tried tomatoes here but the heat is just too much. Plus the local market are organic and much cheaper then the US. Even eggs here taste fantastic. I can't eat eggs any loner in the US.