1. We've had very few donations over the year. I'm going to be short soon as some personal things are keeping me from putting up the money. If you have something small to contribute it's greatly appreciated. Please put your screen name as well so that I can give you credit. Click here: Donations
    Dismiss Notice

Politics What is happening????

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Uh, Baraka_Guru, I don't know about that.
    As many of a "revolutionary" has shown us before that their own actions could be reactionary and arbitrary.

    People are far from perfect or unbiased.
    Revolutions can take from those who worked hard, own legitimately and are essentially good & giving too.

    So I believe in the idea of checks & balances.
    The "elite" need to have checks too...so there is no abuse on their side.
    All sides need to be considered...and of course, this is easier said than done. But so it most anything worth doing.
    There will be corruptions in any system, but if your system is decent...bubbles burst and balances are achieved over time. (and effort...and screaming)

    In the US (I can't speak for other nations), the current problem is a certain segment of society has gained some authority.
    They are using their own influence to put aside certain ideas which did check... (ex. Supreme Court removing campaign donation limits)
    or a previous unabused policy is now being overused (filibuster)
    or our politicians are only thinking about themselves & their donors before the citizens and Nation's needs.

    But I do have some faith, we do have freedom of speech and press.
    So these will bring to light some abuses and unbalanced powers...then a movement will begin to protest, act and then check that power.

    Even now, the momentum is sliding back to balance it...the SEC is going after big banks...and finally going for decent fines that punish for that size
    and pushing it as a crime too.
    Other things are being addressed...and yes, others are still going on.

    But as a quote from a movie says,
    A real representative government is messy. It isn't black & white. And ideals are goals, but not the end all...and BTW, your goals are not another's.
    And unfortunately, it doesn't happen overnight.
    Government is slow...but it needs to be. That's why governments are not Corporations and vice versa.

    People confuse this all. It isn't easy. You can't go for the simple answer.
    You gotta work for it.
    I ask you this...what are you going to have on the other side...if you get what you want.
    It's not guaranteed...and there's always unintended consequences.
    I hear people want to throw all of our representatives out...but who do you vote for, who's going to win in? Will they be any better???
    And if you revolt...
    Will they be any better???

    I like the process...it just needs to be fixed and tweaked.
    But then I will guarantee this...it will need to be fixed and tweaked for the next hundred years...and beyond.
    That's the nature of a good system.

    And I'm sure if I'm alive for a hundred years...I'll be grumbling and bitching about the stuff then too.
    If you care you will.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The problem, rogue49, is that the institutions in which you place your hope are too heavily influenced by the elite few.

    It's come to the point where it will require a willingness of such elites to give up power, whether legitimate or corrupt.

    Is that something in which one should place hope?

    Also bear in mind that "revolution" need not be violent. At its core is a fundamental shift in cultural, political, and/or social institutions spurred by mass-mobilization. One could argue that the U.S. underwent revolution during the civil rights movement in the '60s. Although there was violence certainly involved, it wasn't a widespread violent overthrow of an entire regime.

    I think Hedges is right in terms of pointing out the problems, though it may not necessarily require revolution.

    At the same time, however, I don't think it can be ruled out.

    Things are only getting worse, and I can't see how they will get better while maintaining the status quo.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, keep in mind that you may be seeing a "revolution" soon if things keep trending as they are.
    The GOP is getting more and more isolated, both by demographics and their own mismanagement & miscommunication.
    And the Baby Boomers are slowly fading back and the newer more Web-oriented generations are taking more authority and influence.
    And finally the US economics are going to be changing due to the newer resources found.

    All of these factor into having the old-school conservative mindset trending down and a newer mindset and situation taking over.

    This will all change the whole she-bang in the next 5-10 years...dependent on how voting goes.

    It's kind of strange, but the 00's and teens so far of the new century seem to be a radical struggle.
    And some philosophies that took hold during the 80's and 90's fell on their faces...and caused significant damage.

    I think we're beginning to see a more socially-libertarian mindset.
    A willingness to take on the glutted entities.
    And the new citizen-safeguards are "just" starting...so we're not seeing them in full gear yet.

    And believe it or not, both the middle-class and the stockholders are getting tired of the executive wages...and waste of funds on campaign donations. (which actually don't get results)

    It's just that we want it now...and it's not coming fast enough for those worn by the stupid battles over the decade...and most recently.
     
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The empire is fighting back.

     
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  7. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Nope, they're not going to get anywhere.
    Why?
    Because even though they are worried and making the motions...the barbarians at the gate are still out there.
    The actions that get them in trouble are still being done.
    The words that get them embarrassed are still being said.

    And the mindset and talking points that they allowed, promoted and got them to the bad position in the first place are still existing.

    Problem is, even though many of the "moderates" are aware of the gas.
    They're still stoking the flames.

    However, we'll see what happens next...when the American electorate votes this month and next year.
    You'll never know who'll show up...and which way they'll go.
    That's the only way they'll change.

    Because bullies and cowards only take note when they punched in the nose.

    But the electorate has some personal responsibility on who they vote in there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    When common sense and compromise brands you as a "traitor"

     
  9. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    We need a new word for stupid.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You know what would be awesome? A Tea Party Republican majority!

    In a few short years, we'd go from "the Constitution is just a piece of paper" to...uh...something like Greece maybe? Ireland if things go (relatively) "well"?

    In Ireland's case, though, the austerity was coupled with a low corporate tax rate (effective below 8% vs. the U.S.'s 12%) but a higher top income tax rate (52% vs. the U.S.'s ~35%). They also raised their VAT (sales tax) from 21% to 23%. So it's, like, really weird that they'd want to get their financial house in order by cutting spending and boosting revenue.

    That's really weird, right?
     
  11. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC

    Actually, if I were the GOP I would start considering this "ally" a hostile party.
    Kind of like Pakistan.

    And I'm sure the GOP leaders are starting to realize that their connection to such ultra-right libertarian groups are starting to hurt them.
    How near to insane do you want to be??? :confused:
     
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    What if they held a revolution and nobody came?

    Yesterday was the day Freedom Watch told us that thousands of patriot Americans would rally in front of the White House and demand that Obama resign from office and turn himself in for crimes against the people.

    --- merged: Nov 20, 2013 1:36 PM ---
    I'm hoping they elect Sarah Palin as president of the "government in waiting" when they meet in Philly later this month. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2013
  13. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
  14. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    As a person who lives near D.C...
    Do you know how many people protest at the White House & Congress? Nay, everywhere yet...all over the city.

    They pop up spontaneously...at least to you, because you can't keep track of them.
    Only thing is you can check to see if there are any major ones that might disrupt traffic. (really the only thing you end up caring about)

    They're on every subject under the sun, no matter who's in office.
    (Sanity nor sane subject not required...)

    I've only gone to one, that was Jon Stewart's Rally to Restore Sanity. (and Colbert's sub-rally...Keep Fear Alive. Great Hat from it, BTW :cool:)
    Great fun, good laugh...fine protest subject. (Stop the BS and screaming, politicians go back to work)

    Personally, I think the continuous protest/peace hut in front of the WH is actually a Secret Service decoy...but the article I saw, says no. (maybe it is, maybe it isn't)

    You'll be walking along one day...and there will be an anti-abortion march going by.
    Or you'll come out of a Metro entrance/exit...and there will be a group of strangely dress people chanting and yelling into a mega-phone.

    Whatever. :rolleyes:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
  16. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    Yes! (Including all the paragraphs I didn't quote.) There are no short cuts.

    Now I wonder what brings you to the nation's capital.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2013
  17. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    It's called work.
    DC offers lots of options for an IT person, especially one who specializes in databases and security (lots of big ones here)
    Money doesn't fall far from the well. (Baltimore & Annapolis is also near...as is family)
    Stability and less recession impact is a factor too.


    Now...here's a question.
    America is a superpower...for now.
    Should it want to stay one?

    There are both benefits & disadvantages.
    And some other countries too...if they're honest, can list benefits and positives too. (anyone can note negatives)
    Frankly, I'm not sure.
    It's cool...but it's also a pain in the ass.
    And I'm sure others say the same...we're cool...but we're also a pain in the ass.

    Interesting perspective below.
    What do you think???

     
  18. Street Pattern

    Street Pattern Very Tilted

    My answer is unequivocal: YES!

    If we were to retreat from the world (which is what abdicating as a superpower would entail), then Americans would be less safe and less prosperous.

    Meanwhile, the rest of the world would become less stable, and (theref0re) more dangerous, and probably also less prosperous.

    Very likely, something bad would happen that would rouse the U.S. to resume being a superpower.

    I suppose this isn't surprising, coming from an American, but I think the United States, on the whole, is a force for good in the world.
     
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I agree.

    One of biggest misconceptions among the American people is that we spend a huge percentage of the budget on foreign aid (both military and economic):

    [​IMG]
    The budget myth that just won’t die: Americans still think 28 percent of the budget goes to foreign aid

    When in fact, foreign aid represents about 1% of the budget.

    However, we do spend a huge percent of our budget on defense -- 20%. A super power need not be defined solely by military might and we dont need to spend such a significant percentage o=of the budget on defense...particularly when we spend six times more than China, 11 times more than Russia, 27 times more than Iran and 33 times more than Israel.

    And, we dont need to be "cowboys" with our guns ablazing to exert our influence in a positive manner. Diplomacy (including economic aid) should be the first line of defense, not a Bush-type doctrine of preemptive war.
    --- merged: Nov 21, 2013 at 5:05 PM ---
    Top Five Defense Budgets

    (budget authority in billions of current U.S. dollars)

    [​IMG]

    Slashing non-defense discretionary spending (ie social programs, domestic/economic programs, education, R&D) while continuing to build an even larger defense force weakens the US at home and certainly does not make us stronger abroad.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2013
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Isn't much of America's defence budget a kind of indirect foreign aid?