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What is the appropriate amount of personal tech devices for kids in school?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Borla, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    I've noticed a wide disparity in policies between various school districts, even at the same grades.

    Some schools around here issue laptops or iPads to students, and allow cell phones in class. Other schools still completely ban phones and allow no personal electronic devices. I just saw a school here recently has established open wireless access for their students, and is now encouraging them to bring their own tablets, laptops, and phones to access the Internet for various work assignments while at school.

    I've observed all of this without having any kids in school and without trying to pay particular attention to these policies, I just stumbled across them from local news or from friends who have kids.

    What do the schools in your areas allow, especially if you have kids?

    What do you think is appropriate for middle and/or high school kids?

    How should kids whose parents cannot afford (or choose not to allow) such devices at that age deal with this?

    What should the schools be responsible for providing?
     
  2. I work tech support for a number of school districts across the western UP, so I have a little bit of insight to this issue from the school/administrative side.

    First, some background: of the fifteen-or-so districts that I support, three or four of them supply devices of some kind to their students for use (outside of the normal desktop labs that every school has). These devices started out as being netbooks, back when those were all the craze, but nowadays it's mostly iPads, Android tablets, and most recently Chromebooks.
    The schools that have these devices are limited to the schools that have the financial means to do so; all of the districts would love to be able to provide devices like this to a section of their student body but some (like the districts small enough to have K-12 in a single building, for instance) simply cannot afford it. This is a huge 'gotcha' that some people don't think of; these devices don't magically appear out of thin air, the money has to come from somewhere. And, at least in Michigan, the grant money that a lot of schools rely on for technological upgrades is quickly disappearing.

    I think that the idea of a school supplying some sort of device to their students is a fantastic idea. It allows children access to technology that they might not otherwise have or be able to afford. I know that when I was in high school, I didn't have a laptop because my family just couldn't afford it, and the only way I could even know what one was much less use it was through my school.
    The other great thing is that it cuts down congestion in the labs and allows access for a greater number of students to work concurrently. If students can type up a paper or make a powerpoint presentation on a Chromebook using Google Drive, it means that another student will be able to use the full-sized desktop for a programming assignment, or use of a specialized CAD software (some of my schools have actually bit the bullet and purchased AutoCAD for a particular lab), or finishing up that project using InDesign or Photoshop.

    That said, the idea of supplying these devices has a couple of pitfalls.

    It's been my experience that you can't just give students free access to WiFi, even if that WiFi is protected through K9 or Dans or something simliar. I think this for a couple of reasons.
    -It encourages students not to pay attention in class, or if nothing else gives them an opportunity for it. This puts additional strain on the teachers who now have to worry about more actively patrolling their classroom for people using their phones/iPods during class. Yes, this is 'already a thing,' and if a student has a smartphone they can already get to the Internet through their data connection, but giving them WiFi access definitely wouldn't help matters.
    -Even if the traffic that goes through the device is supervised, the actual usage of personal devices is unsupervised, especially if it's during class when the teacher is otherwise trying to give a lecture. Web filtering software isn't perfect, and methods to defeat this software are not only readily available but are rather easy to implement. If a student does something really terrible (it has happened in the past), the school can be on the hook for it because the action was performed using the school's network resources.

    The way that we (the company I work for) get around this is to not have an open WiFi for the students, but instead have an "appliance WiFi network" that the devices are programmed to automatically connect to. The passwords for these WiFi networks are randomly generated and are hidden within the device where only administrators can get to them, so there's a very small chance of the students getting the passwords for use on other devices. This way the devices that the students use from the school will still have access to the Internet but their personal devices won't. At least, not through WiFi.

    The other issue with schools issuing devices to students is the rate at which students tend to break things.
    We handed out a couple hundred Android tablets (complete with protective cases) in one district and about 1/3 of them came back in need of repair or replacement. Now, granted, this was because the school decided that the student would have 24/7 access to the device (read: the students were allowed to take the devices home) and we all know how well teenagers handle stuff, so this was a bit of a learning experience for the school, but the risk of damage is still there.
    If the school only has enough money for the initial purchase of the device and doesn't budget for potential repairs, then the school is left dealing with a shortage of devices and then has to decide which student gets access to which device at which time. It's a nightmare.

    ...

    So, that all being said, here are my thoughts.

    As I said before, the idea of the school supplying these devices is great, if they can afford to purchase *and support* the devices.
    I think that the devices should not allowed to "go home" with the students, as a rule. The devices should be checked-out by teachers for use during certain class periods, or should be allowed to be checked out by students for supervised use, like in a library or a study hall.
    I don't necessarily think that it should be limited to which students are "responsible" enough; I've seen Kindergartners greatly benefit from some games on iPads (in fact, it seems that the younger grades don't seem to break many devices at all; it's usually middle and lower-grade high schoolers that seem to be the culprits from my experience). That said, use of *all* such devices should be supervised.
    Personal devices should not be allowed. If a student wants to work on a paper or presentation or whatever, they should be able to accomplish what they want to do using the technology that the school provides, whether it's a mobile device, a computer in a lab, whatever. If they can't, it's a fault of the curriculum being taught and not of the school itself (you can't really expect someone to write a paper on the usability of an iPad if they don't have access to one and have no way to obtain access to one, for instance).

    As for your last point about what the school should 'be responsible' for providing, I think that giving them access to a reasonably-spec'd computer with Internet access and access to relevant software is just about where the boundary lies of what the school is 'responsible' for providing. Teaching the students to use the internet, to touch-type, to assemble spreadsheets and make Powerpoint presentations, and how to write papers, are all extremely valuable life-skills that the student will be ill-equipped to handle the 'real world' without.
    Beyond that? It's just icing on the cake. It's extremely convenient and desirable to get a student acclimated with current technologies because they'll likely be seeing that kind of technology outside of the classroom, but in my opinion it's by no means 'necessary.'
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
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  3. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    My daughter's school now makes an exception for cell phones (which can only be used outside of the classrooms) but they are not allowed to bring any other personal electronic devices to the school. (I just checked). They have computer access at the school, but nothing like handing out pads or laptops or anything like that.
     
  4. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    @ThePriseInferno, how much "loss" is there on devices disappearing? I would think some of them would be susceptible to theft, and if so, do parents have any liability for the cost?
     
  5. Stan

    Stan Resident Dumbass

    Location:
    Colorado
    I would think that a kindle or such for textbooks would be a godsend. Always up to date, lightweight, and easy to update. I'm not sure about anything else, it would seem to lend itself to screwing off in class; not that high schoolers need help in that.
     

  6. From my experience, it usually doesn't happen. The devices that we have for "communal" use are usually kept in carts which are checked before and after each teacher uses them so there's a trail of responsibility back to each teacher.
    The district that had the Android tablets go home with the students, each student had to "opt-in" to it so that a) the parent was aware the the student was being issued a device and b) the parent was made fully aware that what the student does with this device is the responsibility of the student (and, by extension, the responsibility of the parent) and that any damages/loss beyond normal wear-n-tear warranty stuff would be the financial responsibility of the parent. Not surprisingly, there were some parents that decided not to participate, which kind of sucks for the students, but it makes sense.

    @Stan that's actually an excellent idea and one that I had not thought of; instead of having to continually purchase multiple copies of multiple textbooks that deteriorate over time, one could just purchase a bunch of Kindles (which are usually much less expensive than the textbooks they are replacing) and hand those out. As long as they were basic models that did textbooks and not much else, they'd be pretty easy to handle from an administration standpoint as well.
     
  7. DamnitAll

    DamnitAll Wait... what?

    Location:
    Central MD
    This topic makes me grumpy, because I think younger kids' minds in particular are being consumed by electronics. Maybe it's just the Luddite in me. Laptops and tablets for academic purposes make a lot of sense for middle and high school students, but there's no justification in my mind to allow kids open access to wifi in a school setting.

    Part of me thinks they should all tough it out and learn the ropes with shitty technology and shitty bandwith like their forebears had to. Hey you kids, get off my lawn!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
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  8. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect

    Location:
    At work..
    Amen.....

    I thought I was the shit when I got a calculator watch (that didn't work worth a shit)
     
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  9. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    Agreed. Plus, it's generally cheaper this way. I'd love to have regular access to a mobile laptop lab for writing workshops. Those are the two pieces of tech I would love to see in students' hands.
     
  10. Xerxes

    Xerxes Bulking.

    Excellent post @ThePriseInferno.

    I am no Luddite. I do however believe in age censorship and limitations on the open web for minors. I do not think that a school should provide Open Wi-Fi and if they must then close it to all other websites save few here and there that are essential. What I mean to say is, if the internet must be accessed the block the entire internet and allow access to only 3 or 4 essential websites here and there (e.g. Wikipedia, Wolfram, etc etc). Websites can be added later on as the administration sees fit. Personal devices on the other hand should be limited to emergencies only and if the student has an emergency they can use the school land line. I'm afraid if personal devices are allowed they would serve to be too distracting and impossible to police.

    The issue I take with open access is from a personal stand point and not indicative of all teenagers. When I was young it was a point of pride for me to discover and utilize means to "beat the system" so to speak. Limited access and limited functionality is all students need. For text books, the kindle ink reader would suffice.

    I would prefer the school districts to vehemently negotiate with manufacturers other than the big wigs that will charge out the wazoo like Dell, HP, etc etc etc. and get affordable infrastructure and maintenance. Perhaps even a tech company could be found and set up from scratch to do this. It could be added to students curriculum that way they would be required and taxed subsidized also. Just some thoughts.
     
  11. Fangirl

    Fangirl Very Tilted

    Location:
    Arizona
    I think cellphones is it for the middle schoolers and lower.
    The high school has an abundance of computers and is completely wired so again, I think cellphones but that may have changed in the last couple of years.
    I'm a Luddite as well.
    Also, you lose Wifi/Internet access and what then? All you need to read a book is sunlight or a flashlight.
    OTOH, I see little kids with 50-lb backpacks full of books and I think--there's gotta be a better way. Maybe a mid-way meeting of some kind?
     
  12. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    I think there should be Kindle like devices for e-books and other educational material. Not so much free range web browsing.

    I wouldn't ban them because some skills for new jobs require the proficient use of technology. But, I think that this issue should be addressed in the correct way. You can't say that studying from a book using a pencil and paper didn't work for some people. It didn't work for everyone though. And it is hard to learn how to create a website or an app if you can't use a computer.
     
  13. snowy

    snowy so kawaii Staff Member

    Wifi in the schools is never truly open, guys. It's filtered. Heavily. It will say it's an "open" network, then redirect you to an approval page, wherein you consent to the filter/acceptable use policy.

    Our filter has been a source of much frustration lately. I like to work relevant YouTubes and other clips into my class material. Why, you might ask. Well, I'm teaching a film course this fall. Being able to quickly bring up a film clip or trailer on YouTube is pretty great. Not being able to access YouTube also breaks content in my Prezis. Additionally, it goes overboard on filtering streaming media. There are pages on NPR it filters out because it has the streaming radio aspect. It's incredibly stupid. What are we protecting these kids from? Does anyone seriously think students are going to look up pornography at school? If my students are using computers, I can typically see what they're doing on them. The filter we had before filtered out most adult content quite well. The one we currently have errs too much on the side of caution, to the point they had to give teachers a workaround.

    I miss my old school. We had two netbook carts, laptop cart, iPad cart, and THREE computer labs--in a middle school. My kids were incredibly proficient with technology and using computers for research. Due to the dearth of technology in my current school, my 9th graders have no idea that Wikipedia isn't an appropriate source for an academic paper--they've never been instructed in what tools to use to do academic research on a computer. They think just Googling it is the solution. I want to teach them, but trying to get into one of the two computer labs we have is difficult.

    I'll also refer you to the ISTE standards, so you can see the framework teachers are working with when we try to teach with tech:
    ISTE Standards
     
  14. Yup. At our schools we have a separate policies for teachers that have less strict filtering policies than the network the students use.

    That said, at least 3 in every 10 calls that I get are something to the tune of "I need this site unblocked" or "Can't you just remove this stupid filter?"
     
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