Planned Death by Choice

I don't buy that they were all that happy. I'm guessing the material life wasn't what they were hoping and the quiet desperation of accumulation made them life-weary. As far as suicide, sure it's their call and they should be able to end their life whenever they want.

My brother who chose suicide, did so because he got himself into a huge mess. He did a bad thing and got caught/turned himself in. The suicide was not so bad, in my opinion. If he had done it before messing up his daughter, and left a note saying he was killing himself so that he wouldn't mess up his family, then I could have mourned him...

 

I also don't buy this.

I have no problem with terminally ill or permanently suffering people choosing death as relief. But physically healthy individuals? No. As others have noted, it's incredibly selfish.

When I was in rabbinical school, I shadowed a rabbi doing some funerals, and one was for a suicide. It was awful, and deeply striking how much more full of grief, anger, bewilderment, and other tumultuous emotions it was, even compared to other hard funerals (kids, cancer deaths, etc.), because of the harshness of having to deal with this person unexpectedly and unilaterally killing themselves. I felt so bad for these poor family members and friends.

In Jewish Law, we automatically presume that anyone who commits suicide was mentally ill. I initially had thought that was just a legal fiction (since otherwise suicide would be a sin for us), to ensure the deceased could be buried in a Jewish cemetery. But now, I see it is more than a legal fiction, I think it is simply the truth. I do not believe mentally and emotionally stable people kill themselves.

Whatever the appearance, there was something else going on.

 

I don't believe that all suicides are commited by the mentally ill. There are times when a person makes a choice whether it is to relieve on going pain which can be mental stress pain or physical pain, I'm not talking about cancer or someone already near death.

No way out situations, most likely going to prison, or just so trapped that they don't see any other way out.
What I have seen through the years is sometimes it was planned and sometimes it was carried out within moments of making that final decision.
I never saw it as being selfish from the few I knew, but felt it was a shame that they didn't find the strength to call someone, but found the strength to hang herself or put a gun to his head.

Planned Death by Choice, makes me wonder what kind of conversations they had for the last two months of their lives.

Now on the other side of sucide you have your sucide bombers: mentally ill or just brain washed?

 

I have mixed feelings on the issue. In a lot of cases, it seems like a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I do not understand the reasoning presented for this couple. On the other hand, if I came home with a diagnosis of Alzheimers or dementia, you can pretty much count on it.

 

I reached a state once I was happy and felt very free. I had reached some significant goals. But at the same time completely free of any commitments or responsibilities. At that point I felt I could go! Well but I didnt. Just weeks after that I met my now wife. We been on a roller coaster together its 14 years. And still planning a lot of life with her further. And I dont know when I will reach a point that feels that good to go.

Yes I personally don't like fighting things like cancer myself. I respect when others do. I would just do a bucket list and surrender. That would be my way.


But what I would really discuss is beyond this couple or suicide.
What if in future all decisions about birth are death are totally pragmatic. Like how a baby is made is totally scientific and practical. Similarly why and how someone dies becomes completely practical and scientific.

I feel much more comfortable to ask this in Tfp than any other place that I know
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Yes in the original article there are lots of signs
And I did some research and found something was going on in their minds for very long time
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They would be very fragile. In fact their family could be very fragile esp the one who is going to incur the emotional loss the most. I had seen it. And learnt NOT to judge them based on what they say or do on those last few days...

 

Those are partly the reason why I wouldn't fight things like cancer. And I also of opinion that it is very normal for people to lose their sense of familial relationships with such prolonged chronic pain personally or witnessing a loved one and enduring to tend and care them...

I also have experience of suffering and pain and struggle with respect to bringing a baby...

Hence I would like to explore how in future birth/death would be! Will it be very personal and emotional like today? Or will it all take a total change of perception!?
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You must be then one hell of an Iron Man!

 

I can understand why people kill themselves, I can even understand why people kill as many other people as they can before killing themselves. But, I don't think it helps and does nothing but get your name in the news for a few days. I would not want to be a Secret Service agent, because their is plenty of delusional people out there who would give their life to try and 'protect' the country from someone they don't agree with and the media they watch keeps telling them over and over is going to cause big problems in the near future. They will also get ideas of grandeur because it's like they would be the one guy who was able to kill Hitler before WW2 and save millions of people.

36 and 39 are pretty young to be committing suicide, especially if they are in a normal relationship without any infidelity. Maybe they really wanted kids and couldn't have their own, so had no reason to live???

Here is something I came across the other day that really makes you think. Both about what you have done with your life, and what more you want to accomplish or experience with the time you have left.
Tikker – The wrist watch that counts down your life! by Rebecca DeRosa — Kickstarter

BBC News - A list for living, not a bucket list

Then, this brings up the question of being able to die when you are old and your body isn't capable of doing the things you are used to doing. And there is the question about how much money you need to save for retirement and how fast you can burn through it. Is it worth working at a job you don't like in your prime 20's, 30's and 40's to be able to pay some nurse to change your bedpan in some nursing home when you are 90? And what could you do with that money to live a better life when you are younger instead of watching TV all day in an assisted living facility?

Take three 30 year old guys, all three have saved $25,000. One puts it towards long term care insurance when he is over 65. The other takes a trip around the world, but has a plan to commit suicide if he is ever faced with going to a nursing home when older. And the third rents a nice place, buys a flashy new car, and clothes to impress the ladies. Which one will end up in a better place? What will the outcome of their lives be? What do we judge success on? How long they live, the impact they make on the world, or how many offspring they created?

 

Hi ASU2003
Thanks for your thoughtful response
Success is all about how much you got to what you wanted to! So it is different for each one.
Now what if for this couple the whole world seemed very shallow and meaningless the way it is today! I still believe we are all overlooking their depth!

But 200 years from today, I just DONT believe humans can live to their old age and cant have babies like we do now. I dont think it will be practical in a resource management point of view.