Politics The Elephant in the room...The GOP today

Baraka_Guru · Oct 5, 2013

Tully Mars said: ↑

Well the US "advised" a lot of countries not to be communists over the years too. Used millions of gallons of napalm giving that advice.
Click to expand...

Speaking of irony, after all those years and all those resources spent keeping communism, and now "Islamofascism," at bay, look at what has been creeping into the American political climate under the guise of patriotism.

"We have met the enemy and he is us."

redux · Oct 7, 2013

The proof that we are now in the End Times!

In an interview with Understanding the Times host Jan Markell on Saturday, Rep. Michele Bachmann accused President Obama of giving aid to Al Qaeda, which she said is proof that we are living in the Last Days. Of course, on the same day Bachmann gave the interview, a Delta Force operation approved by Obama nabbed a key Al Qaeda figure in Libya.

But according to Bachmann, Obama is now championing the terrorist group.

The Minnesota congresswoman referred to a decision by the Obama administration to allow vetted Syrian rebels not affiliated with terrorist organizations to help them resist chemical weapons attacks, which was spurred by the Syrian regime’s use of chemical weapons on civilians.

While the administration’s move is only related to non-lethal, defensive and protective aid, Bachmann falsely claimed that “President Obama waived a ban on selling arms to terrorists.”

“President Obama waived a ban on arming terrorists in order to allow weapons to go to the Syrian opposition,” Bachmann said. “Your listeners, US taxpayers, are now paying to give arms to terrorists including Al Qaeda.”

Bachmann said that the Al Qaeda funding (which isn’t happening) is a sign of the End Times: “This happened and as of today the United States is willingly, knowingly, intentionally sending arms to terrorists, now what this says to me, I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, as I look at the End Times scripture, this says to me that the leaf is on the fig tree and we are to understand the signs of the times, which is your ministry, we are to understand where we are in God’s end times history.”

“Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha Come Lord Jesus, His day is at hand,” Bachmann continued. “When we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this; these days would be as the days of Noah.”

Bachmann: Obama Is Supporting Al Qaeda, Proving That We Are In The End Times | Right Wing Watch
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Baraka_Guru · Oct 7, 2013

What a wonderful example of the importance of the separation of church and state. At what point do we consider her type a liability based on religious extremism?

rogue49 · Oct 8, 2013

Can I get my old GOP back??
These others are unstable...

Baraka_Guru · Oct 8, 2013

rogue49 said: ↑

Can I get my old GOP back??
These others are unstable...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, at this point, it will probably take a series of harmful outcomes to get people to realize the danger these folks present. When you have people like her making decisions for a secular state, and you have enough if them, you get the possibility of finding the nation has become regressive, especially compared to other supposed liberal democracies.

I think there is a slow creep of this kind in the US, and it has implications for the nation's competitiveness regarding education, research and development, health, and, ultimately, the economy.

redux · Oct 9, 2013

Congratulations Republicans!

You have now achieved Gallup's lowest favorable rating measured for either party since Gallup began asking this question in 1992.

Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low

rogue49 · Oct 9, 2013

I think this is fair assessment.
We need a balance to it all. (then again I'm right down the center, so I would think that)

U.S. Fringe Festival
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN - October 8, 2013

There is one group of people with an even greater interest than Democrats in President Obama prevailing over Tea Party Republicans in this shutdown showdown, and that is mainstream Republicans.

What exactly are supposedly mainstream conservatives — starting with House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell — thinking? If the “Ted Cruz Wing” of the G.O.P. prevails and forces the president to curtail Obamacare in any way in return for funding the government, mainstream conservatives will be staring at a terrible future. In the near term, they’ll be taking orders from Senator Ted Cruz, who would be crowned kingmaker of the G.O.P. if he got Obama to give in one iota on Obamacare. Cruz and his Tea Party allies would be calling the shots, and Boehner would become that very rare bird — a SPINO (a Speaker in Name Only).

In the long run, because this fringe would be dictating the party line, Republicans would stand zero chance of winning the White House in 2016. If the country rejected Mitt Romney’s bad imitation of a far-right conservative — one hostile to immigration reform, health care, gay marriage and a grand bargain — imagine how the real thing would fare.

Finally, given the way the Republicans have managed to gerrymander so many Congressional districts in their favor, they can easily retain control of the House under any normal economic conditions. But if they trigger a U.S. government default, a disruption in Social Security payments and economic turmoil in their effort to scuttle Obamacare — and a majority of voters blame Republicans — that could overwhelm the G.O.P.’s gerrymandered House advantage.

In other words, the only thing standing between mainstream Republicans and a hellish future of kowtowing to Ted Cruz, never seeing the inside of the White House and possibly losing the House is President Obama’s refusal to give in to the shutdown blackmail that Cruz & Co. have cooked up. The more pragmatic Republicans, who know that this is a disaster for their party but won’t confront Cruz & Co., have settled on this bogus line: “Well, sure, maybe Cruz and the Tea Party went too far, but it’s still President Obama’s fault. He’s president. He should negotiate with them. He needs to lead.”

President Obama is leading. He is protecting the very rules that are the foundation of any healthy democracy. He is leading by not giving in to this blackmail, because if he did he would undermine the principle of majority rule that is the bedrock of our democracy. That system guarantees the minority the right to be heard and to run for office and become the majority, but it also ensures that once voters have spoken, and their representatives have voted — and, if legally challenged, the Supreme Court has also ruled in their favor — the majority decision holds sway. A minority of a minority, which has lost every democratic means to secure its agenda, has no right to now threaten to tank our economy if its demands are not met. If we do not preserve this system, nothing will ever be settled again in American politics. There would be nothing to prevent a future Democratic Congress from using the exact same blackmail to try to overturn a law enacted by their Republican rivals.

The president has said that he would give the G.O.P. an agenda for negotiations that could start when the government is funded and the debt ceiling lifted. He’s ready to consider trading the medical-device tax in Obamacare for another equivalent source of revenue or having a talk about closing tax loopholes and reforming entitlements — to both lower the deficit and raise revenue to invest in infrastructure or early childhood education. What Obama will not do, and must not do, is pay an entry fee to that negotiation — say giving up the medical-device tax — just to help Boehner down from the tree. Cruz & Co. would claim victory.

The reason so many mainstream Republican lawmakers want Obama to give something to Cruz & Co. is that they want to get out of this mess, but they’re all afraid to stand up to the far-right fringe themselves — with its bullying network of barking talk-show hosts and moneymen. But Obama shouldn’t take them off the hook. Only Republicans can delegitimize the nihilistic madness at the base of their party. (I wouldn’t exaggerate this, but I think Boehner underestimates how many mainstream Republicans feel their party is being stolen from them by radicals — and hunger for a leader who will take them on.)

For their party’s sake and the country’s sake, Republicans need to go through the same kind of civil war and fundamental rethinking that the British Labour Party went through — after successive defeats by Margaret Thatcher — to produce “New Labour” and that Democrats went through — after successive defeats by Ronald Reagan — to produce “Clinton Democrats.”

Yes, it will cost them today, but it will enable them to thrive in the future. America needs a proper right-of-center conservative party to challenge a left-of-center Democratic Party. Without a healthy opposition party — one that is ready to win some and lose some and learn from its losses, one that has a real agenda for upward mobility, not just a low-tax obsession and boiling anger — our two-party system doesn’t work, and neither does the country.
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redux · Oct 11, 2013

Establishment Republicans have had enough and more and more are taking on the Tea Party types.

From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington.

The Republican establishment also is signaling a willingness to strike back at the tea party in next fall's elections.

"It's time for someone to act like a grown-up in this process," former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu argues, faulting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party Republicans in the House as much as President Barack Obama for taking an uncompromising stance.

Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is just as pointed, saying this about the tea party-fueled refusal to support spending measures that include money for Obama's health care law: "It never had a chance."

The anger emanating from Republicans like Sununu and Barbour comes just three years after the GOP embraced the insurgent political group and rode its wave of new energy to return to power in the House.

Now, they're lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they're laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.

more: AP News : Establishment GOPers assail tea party on shutdown
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The in-fighting wont end anytime soon and the 2014 elections might well determine the future of the extremist Tea Party wing of the party.

Baraka_Guru · Oct 11, 2013

I guess they've finally acknowledged the elephant in the room. Well, at least some of them have.

This thread is shy of 900 posts. Not bad.

redux · Oct 13, 2013

The results are in from the first straw poll for the 2016 presidential election.

From the Value Voters Summit in DC today:

Ted Cruz - 42%

Dr. Ben Carson ("Obamacare is the worst thing to happen to the US since slavery) - 13%

Rick Santorum ( “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is the dangers of contraception in this country...) - 13%

Cruz crushes field in presidential straw poll at Values Voters Summit - Washington Times

Baraka_Guru · Oct 13, 2013

redux said: ↑

The results are in from the first straw poll for the 2016 presidential election.

From the Value Voters Summit in DC today:

Ted Cruz - 42%

Dr. Ben Carson ("Obamacare is the worst thing to happen to the US since slavery) - 13%

Rick Santorum ( “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is the dangers of contraception in this country...) - 13%

Cruz crushes field in presidential straw poll at Values Voters Summit - Washington Times
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According to Wikipedia, that's the highest anyone has achieved since the Value Voters Summit started doing them in 2007. He beat Ron Paul's 2011 polling by 5 points.

If this gets some legs, Ted Cruz could be the best thing for American freedom since Joseph McCarthy.

rogue49 · Oct 13, 2013

The words I hear again and again are,
"The crazy republicans"
"The angry republicans"
"The alienating republicans"
"The blocking republicans"

So they are the key words that you hear about your party ad nauseum are...crazy, angry, alienating and blocking everything.
Will you think that most people will vote for you ...or respect you???
That becomes your reputation.

Again...I'm not a liberal and I don't really like the Dems,
but I HATE what the GOP is doing and I really don't have any alternatives.

I'm certainly not going to do nothing. (or waste my vote on a throwaway)
Which is some people's solution or protest...but that does two things...
One, it does nothing.
Two, it gives what you do NOT want, the default win to the insanity.

So I shrug my shoulders...and end up voting against the Republicans.
Which is what I think most of America is doing.

redux · Oct 21, 2013

Yesterday, following the Value Voters Summit, Ted Cruz and media whore Sarah Palin led a march of veterans to the WW II memorial (and the White House) to protest the closing of the memorial....a closing for which Cruz (and House Republicans) were primarily responsible.

They further showed their support for veterans with the confederate flag.

Cruz, Lee, Palin join memorial protest - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
--- merged: Oct 14, 2013 1:28 PM ---
Joe the Plumber is back in the news and its not good news for Republican Ben Carson (tied for second in the Value Voters straw poll)

American Needs a White Republican President

--- merged: Oct 14, 2013 1:34 PM ---
One speaker went as far as saying the president was a Muslim and separately urged the crowd of hundreds to initiate a peaceful uprising.

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs

Baraka_Guru · Oct 14, 2013

Well, this shutdown creates an environment that encourages teh crazy.

WHARRGARBL! Black! WHARRGARBL! Muslim! WHARRGARBL! America!

redux said: ↑

Yesterday, following the Value Voters Summit, Ted Cruz and media whore Sarah Palin led a march of veterans to the WW II memorial (and the White House) to protest the closing of the memorial....a closing for which Cruz (and House Republicans) were primarily responsible.
Click to expand...

Cruz says Obama is using veterans as pawns with this shutdown (whose shutdown?).

What does Cruz have to say about some 900,000 veterans who receive SNAP every month?

Idiot.

redux · Oct 14, 2013

There is a new lovefest in town!

Baraka_Guru · Oct 14, 2013

redux said: ↑

There is a new lovefest in town!
Click to expand...

Let's see... They're anti-taxes, they're anti-"Obamacare," they're anti-abortion, they're anti-gay, they're anti-immigration, they're anti–gun control, they're anti–distancing religion from government/the public sphere.

Why, I'd say they're a match made in heaven. Maybe it's a part of God's plan to ensure America's freedom.

EDIT: In looking at this again, it kind of pisses me off. I mean, how much of an ideologue do you have to be to preach about "freedom" while simultaneously supporting authoritarianism?

rogue49 · Oct 14, 2013

These people have as much ethics or integrity as a fly-by-night agent in Hollywood.

My apologies to Hollywood agents...

I can't even watch "game change" because I see how loathsome Sarah Palin is.
PLEASE don't make a Ted Cruz film

I actually have more respect for the character of Hannibal Lecter.

Why do I get the feeling that most of the establishment GOP is cringing, watching these antics...knowing the damage
yet they have no spine to stop them.

Baraka_Guru · Oct 14, 2013

It's nothing short of populist demagoguery. As astroturf as the Tea Party movement may be, it seems like fertile ground for fascism.

Aceventura · Oct 21, 2013

Baraka_Guru said: ↑

Let's see... They're anti-taxes, they're anti-"Obamacare," they're anti-abortion, they're anti-gay, they're anti-immigration, they're anti–gun control, they're anti–distancing religion from government/the public sphere.

Why, I'd say they're a match made in heaven. Maybe it's a part of God's plan to ensure America's freedom.

EDIT: In looking at this again, it kind of pisses me off. I mean, how much of an ideologue do you have to be to preach about "freedom" while simultaneously supporting authoritarianism?
Click to expand...

Your characterizations are inaccurate. People aligned with the Tea Party are not opposed to taxes, we are opposed to excessive taxation. There is not person aligned with the Tea Party that I know who is an anarchist - and that is what one would have to be if they are truly "anti-taxes" as you put it.

Being against Obamacare is an honest acknowledgement of its failings. Obamacare as we know it today will be dramatically different in the future - even Obama through executive dictate has made material changes to the law as it was drafted and passed into law.

Being anti-abortion is a position even liberals support. Who wants to encourage abortion??? The reality is that there have been conservative Presidents, conservative controlled legislative bodies, conservative courts and abortion is still legal. More than a million abortions occur every year in this country. The good news, at least for us "anti-abortion" folks, is that the number is trending downward. Even with abortion as an option for women, those who have abortions often have issues with the decision - an unwanted pregnancy is not a good thing one way or the other. Far too many teens who get abortions have been raped - as a society we need to address this issue, not ignore it!

Anti-gay - being pro-marriage between a man and a woman is not the same as being anti-gay. Father and mothers should play an active role in the lives of their children as parents - this is what is best for human society.

Anti-immigration - What is anti-immigration? Protecting our boarders? Having a process for citizenship? Enforcing the law? What? Is Canada anti-immigration? Is what conservatives want any different than what Canada is actually doing?

Even NRA members support certain forms of gun control.

Religion and government - being free of religion is not the same as freedom of religion. We have had this discussion, seems to me that you want a society that is free of religion and that a display of religion is harmful. I, and many conservatives (even secular) disagree. In my view atheism is a religion and is different than being agnostic.

Being pissed off is an indication of intolerance of differences. Disagreement is one thing, mis-characterization and demonization of those with different views is another.
--- merged: Oct 14, 2013 at 3:18 PM ---

redux said: ↑

There is a new lovefest in town!

Click to expand...

So, do we want to start a Palin discussion? Why bring her up? Isn't she non-consequential? Isn't Ted Cruz a fringe, extremist? What is your concern with these people? Why do you and MSNBC obsess over people like Palin and Cruz? Hasn't Cruz made himself an outcast in the Republican Party? I doubt you want my answers to these questions, but I would love to read your views because I can not reconcile how on one hand these people are fringe and on the other they have so much influence.

redux · Oct 21, 2013

Aceventura said: ↑

....

...Disagreement is one thing, mis-characterization and demonization of those with different views is another.
Click to expand...

ACA death panels and going to prison for not paying fine? A path to citizenship with fines and back taxes is amnesty? Obama is a socialist Muslim? Restoring tax rates of the top 1% to 1999 levels is wealth redistribution? Not promoting Christianity above other religions on government property or is schools is a War on Christmas? Legal abortion is infanticide? Gay marriage is destroying American families?
--- merged: Oct 14, 2013 at 3:27 PM ---

Aceventura said: ↑

So, do we want to start a Palin discussion? Why bring her up? Isn't she non-consequential? Isn't Ted Cruz a fringe, extremist? What is your concern with these people? Why do you and MSNBC obsess over people like Palin and Cruz? Hasn't Cruz made himself an outcast in the Republican Party? I doubt you want my answers to these questions, but I would love to read your views because I can not reconcile how on one hand these people are fringe and on the other they have so much influence.
Click to expand...

I bring Palin up because she is a media whore and is always good for a laugh.

As to Cruz and the Tea Party members in the House, they have effectively cut off Boehner's balls or we would not be in this madness.

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