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Politics Obamacare

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by pan6467, Mar 28, 2012.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    So you want states to loosen the standards for NPs? And at the same time, give them more responsibility traditionally limited to doctors? Or maybe I'm missing something here.

    Sounds like the Republicans in Congress...with no comprehensive alternative plan. Allowing insurance across states lines (which, btw, the ACA does with state compacts) is hardly a comprehensive solution.
     
  2. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico

    There's a plan, check the GOP home page for a link. Well here's a link-

    Repeal and Replace the Job-Destroying Health Care Law - A Pledge to America - GOP.gov

    It has five points. None are very specific really other then the last one which is "get rid of all federally funded abortions." So if you're a woman and an abortion would save your life then fuck off and die. Of course once the baby's born the GOP will no interest in it what so ever. Life is scared until it's born then it should get a job.
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You make it sound easy. Have you read anything about this Congress?
     
  4. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    If there was any compasion at all in the pro abortion crowd, the clinics would perform the procedure for free in that case. however, it's not about caring or compasion, federaly funded abortions are about a sacrement to socialized healthcare.

    but i know how trendy and argument ending it is to say fuck off and die everytime somebody doesn't want to be forced to pay for someone elses care.
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The Hyde Amendment already prohibits federal funded abortions under Medicaid except in the case of rape, incest, life of the mother.

    What the Republicans propose is to allow family planning clinics, any organization that receives federal funding and even group health plans to exclude abortion coverage, even though no federal funds would be used....or worse as they voted to defund Title X entirely, eliminating all federal funding for family planning services, with the exception of abstinence education.

    They also want to allow clinics and health plans to even exclude contraception coverage for reasons of "conscience" thus not allowing abortions even with private fund OR providing services to limit unwanted pregnancies.

    Do you think opposing both abortions and comprehensive family planning is good public policy?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  6. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    The world isn't so binary. This is a trap so many fall into.

    Would you also say that the soldiers who served in Iraq and Afghanistan should have done so for free because of the moral need? You shouldn't expect to be paid for doing good, right? Is the military a sacrement to socialized institutions?

    Abortions aren't free because they require resources.

    I've always enjoyed this rhetoric. For items you disagree with, you're being forced to pay for it; for items you agree with, you are happily supporting it, yet all you're doing is paying your taxes, voting once in a while, and maybe contacting your Congressman.
     
  7. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    Sure
    The GOP wants women to be forced to carry babies they don't want, can't afford and possible were raped to conceive. Many right wingers want the mother to carry the baby even if their life and the life of the baby is at serious risk.

    Yeap, with the GOP it's all about getting government out of peoples personal lives.
     
  8. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Republican Congressman Mike Kelly yesterday equated birth-control mandate with Pearl Harbor and 9/11
    Perhaps our conservative colleagues can explain how acts of war and terrorism have anything to do with easier access to contraception.
     
  9. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    I don't believe we need family planning organizations. families were a lot better off before we had these things. divorce rates and out of wedlock pregnancies are through the roof right now. all these organizations do is help people deal with reckless lifestyle choices.
    --- merged: Aug 2, 2012 at 7:47 PM ---
    i dont think the military is a good example. im not talking about the abortion clinics not getting paid. i'm talking about the rare cases of rape and life threatening pregnancy abortions like tully mars was talking about. they are the exception not the rule. it's not like the clinics wouldn't be getting paid all together if they were to do these specific cases for free. if there was any 'compassion' like he said, the clinics would gladly do these cases for free, but of course they wont.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2012
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Family planning organizations didn't cause the increase in divorce or "unsanctioned" pregnancies. There are other causes, including but not limited to: an increase in women's freedom, the erosion of the sanctity of marriage, and an unprecedented economic shift.

    These organizations are filling a need, not creating a problem, and it's pointless to pine over some idyllic pre-'60s American way of life. (As "swell" as that would be.)

    I think you're grossly mischaracterizing these organizations. The clients aren't all indiscriminate sluts who prefer to ride bareback.

    I blame the average American's irrational fear of socialism.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Access to contraception and reproductive health services through employer sponsored health plan prevents millions of unwanted pregnancies a year and, not primarily in teenage girls, but in responsible adults. And, as a result prevents hundreds of thousands of abortions a year. You don't have the right to legislate your morality regarding sex outside of marriage.

    And family planning organizations that primarily serve low income women, federal funding that has been eliminated by the Republicans in Congress on their anti-abortion crusade (even though federal funding cannot be used for abortions, with a few exceptions), not only prevents unwanted pregnancies (and the consequence of abortion) but prevents cervical cancer, breast cancer, STDs, HIV, etc. through early screening not otherwise available.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  12. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Teen pregnancy and abortion rates were at their highest in the 80s and peeked in 1988.

    [​IMG]

    I blame Reagan :p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
  13. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    can anyone tell me about the healthcare rebate checks that some people are receiving? I'm not understanding how they work or what the qualifications are for getting them.
     
  14. Hektore

    Hektore Slightly Tilted

    What exactly do you mean by 'better off'? If there some objective metric your using to make this assessment and if so would you please share it?

    I'm also having some trouble connecting the dots on what divorce rates have to do with family planning at all.
     
  15. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico
    I'm gonna guess when you plan a family you don't plan on getting divorced and you leave the number children in the family for God to figure out.
     
  16. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I thought it was when you plan your family you figure out when you're going to get divorced so that you already have that planned.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Under new medical loss ratio provisions of the ACA, insurance companies must spend at least 85 percent of insurance premiums in large employer group plans directly on patient care and quality improvement (80 percent for small employers and individual plans). It went into effect last year. Insurance companies are required to report annually and if they exceed that cap, they must reimburse consumers for the difference by Aug. 1 of each year.

    But the checks go to the employer and the employer can either rebate a share to employees or applied as a discount on future premiums. Over $1 billion was paid out this year (for last year's overcharges).
    --- merged: Aug 3, 2012 at 7:17 PM ---
    "Family values" conservatives (and I guess some libertarians) are quick to blame "feminism, gay rights, pornography, and other vile intruders (and those 60s hippies and their sex, drugs and rock&roll) for the moral decline of the traditional family." (rick santorum)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2012
  18. Tully Mars

    Tully Mars Very Tilted

    Location:
    Yucatan, Mexico

    I just had some friends use my house for a wedding last week. Actually quite an event, catered, DJ, flowers everywhere... I even cleaned the pool for it. I told the groom in my best Spanish "it's not the cost of the wedding that gets you... it's the divorce that will break you." He told me "I'm Catholic so no divorce... I'll just get a girlfriend in a few years." I was joking... pretty sure he wasn't.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. ralphie250

    ralphie250 Fully Erect

    Location:
    At work..
    So if I currently have healthcare through my employer and pay high premiums can I cancel it and get obamacare? I really don't understand it.
     
  20. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    I don't get it either and no one is talking about it in our HR department as far as open enrollment which starts now.