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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, this pretty much says it all.
    Why Obama can negotiate with Putin and Iran...but not the GOP.

    My question is this...why are we even having to deal with this bullshit???
    Don't we have better things to do?

    What could have been done if we didn't have to???
    This is what pissed me off back when Clinton went through the same, the Govt shutdown and the Impeachment proceedings.

    Cut thru the shit, let's get some work done. :mad:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    In a multiparty system, there is always the hope that a "party behaving badly" will get punished at the polls at the next election. Unfortunately, with America's two-party system, holding such hope is likely a waste of time and energy.

    Depressingly, even with a multiparty system like Canada's, a party that previously held a minority can be rewarded with a majority government even after an election is triggered by that same party being found in contempt of parliament. Yes, let's give more power (more power over Canada than an American president could ever dream of having over America) to the party that was officially "punished" for lying to parliament and in turn the entire Canadian public.

    I think ultimately the problem is the left's disillusionment and disenfranchisement on one hand, and the right's resentment and paranoia on the other.

    It's a great argument in support of mandatory voting. :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  5. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    I love the idea of mandatory voting.
    But I understand why you wouldn't want to have it for two reasons...
    First, it undermines the freedom of not voting or abstaining.
    Second, how would you enforce it? We're already going through hell for the Obamacare mandate. And shit happens, who'd judge the fine??

    I guess with this day and age, you could have online polling and an extended week to give everyone more time and convenience.
    But then you're getting into the paranoia of hacking, manipulation, etc...and the extended drama about it.

    Frankly, I'd be happier if they simply made it on Saturday & Sunday instead of Tuesday. (in the US, I don't know what it is elsewhere)
    Sure, others are worried that they violate certain religious days, but people don't follow that as much anymore and 2 days gives more flex for that.
    It certainly would be WAY more convenient.
     
  6. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    About 60% of Americans oppose Obamacare. About 40% don't really know what it is. These numbers are according to some polls I have seen on various news channels. If we combine the two, would that mean that of those that know 100% are against Obamacare and the rest will be? Just wondering. I doubt DC will share links to these polls.
    --- merged: Sep 28, 2013 at 4:24 PM ---
    "...behaving badly" - I supported politicians who opposed Obamacare, why are they behaving badly? Or are you talking about the other side? Just wondering.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
  7. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I will be happy to discuss the polls with you, Ace. Most have opposition to the ACA at about 55% and support at 45%. But if you look below the surface, 10% of those opposed are those on the left who think it does not go far enough and want a single payer system.

    I have not seen a poll where a majority of Americans want the ACA defunded or delayed.
    --- merged: Sep 28, 2013 at 5:25 PM ---
    I think Obama explained it:
    Imagine if you had a Republican president and a Democratic speaker, and the Democratic speaker said, well, we’re not going to pass the debt ceiling unless we raise corporate taxes by 40 percent or unless we pass background checks on guns or whatever other list of agenda items Democrats were interested in. Does anybody actually think that we would be hearing from Republicans that that was acceptable behavior? That’s not how our constitutional system is designed. We are not going to do it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And I'd say that most don't even know what it is...and most that those that say that they oppose it is because simply there has been so much negative publicity from the GOP on it. I've talked to people myself, most have no idea what it is or what's going to happen. Most that say they oppose it, can't say specifically what they oppose. HHS hasn't been given the funds to roll it out or educate people. The Obama administration has done a piss-poor job of promoting it.

    But that's not to say it doesn't have merits.
    And when you start asking people about if they like the specifics of what it is going to do, they say, "Oh, I like that", "Sure, I want that"
    So what you're getting is, people want the change...they're just polling negatively on the name.
    And worthwhile article after article that's not tabloid-esqe says just the same.

    That, and the damn idea is a Republican idea in the first place...similarly implemented by a Republican in a Democratic state. (and doing well too)
    Hell, if the "socialists" and "liberals" had their way, it would have been a nice well-fed single-payer system.
    But no, we have something that supports the insurance companies...and makes people who haven't done their part, participate. (sounds GOP to me)
    And that's fine, let it work.

    But what you're doing is protesting simply to protest, asking to delay...just because "the other side" did it...not "your side"
    but "your side" hasn't come up with ONE thing better. Their solution now...stop it, don't do it at all. Because HE did it.
    Let's just play anarchists instead.
    Stop all government. Don't pay debts.
    Not respect the rule of law...what was voted in. (AND confirmed constitutional)
    That's what you're arguing for.

    I'm not for ANY side, I'm independent and right down the friggin' god-damned middle.
    But unlike most people, I study, I analyze, I remember...and I don't listen to friggin' talking points and spin.
    I simply want someone to work.
    And I want something that works.
    Reality talks, bullshit walks.

    Obamacare will be better than what we had before.
    And believe me, I've BEEN on the place where we were before. People can't survive that.
    I can't believe I did survive it. And I'm still dealing with the cascading consequences to this day.

    So until the GOP has something better.
    Let's just do the something better than what we had. Because nothing sucks.
    And that's what the GOP is saying...
    Threating sinking the boat and our national reputation, just so we can go back to a sucking nothing.

    And if you're reading the other polls correctly, the GOP may be paying a price for that.
     
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    You should know what side I'm taking about. And I think they've made it perfectly clear to anyone with even the slightest capacity for critical thought as to why they're behaving badly. It's not like they've been tactful about it. That's more of a Canadian conservative thing.
    --- merged: Sep 28, 2013 at 6:03 PM ---
    With a number as high as 60% who oppose "Obamacare," you'd think at least some of the 40% who don't really know what it is also fall into that category. I wouldn't' doubt that there is substantial overlap. It's not like Americans are spared propaganda in the mainstream media. (For example: POLL: More oppose ‘Obamacare’ than ‘Affordable Care Act’ — MSNBC) Only fascist states such as Canada have laws related to "truth in news reporting."
    --- merged: Sep 28, 2013 at 6:13 PM ---
    I don't know how I feel about mandatory voting. We already have to do things on a mandatory basis such as renew our driver's license, etc., so I don't see how mandatory voting would be that big a deal in this respect. There should be always an option to abstain.

    Voting for me is about 500% more efficient than renewing my driver's license, regardless of the election being municipal, provincial, or federal.

    As for fines: Maybe make them minimal, like under $50. Make it something that people will want to avoid by spending an hour of their time voting, while not making it ruinous. Put the money towards campaigns for electoral awareness and education.

    I'm just musing at this point.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
  10. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Opposition has never been as high as 60%.

    Real Clear Politics tracks major polling since the law was enacted....the aggregate is closer to low 50% opposition. Much (most) is real opposition from the right, some is as a result of not understanding the law and some represents opposition from the left.

    But if we want to set policy by polling...........85-90% of Americans support universal background checks for gun ownership.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Maybe this will help Ace understand the polling on the ACA.

    From a May 2013 CNN poll -- 43% favor the ACA and 53% oppose it. That number looks to support the conservative position. But CNN asked a follow up question: Do you oppose because it is too liberal or not liberal enough.

    35% oppose because it is too liberal, 16% oppose because it is not liberal enough.

    http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/05/28/healthcarepoll.pdf

    So 43% favor the ACA and 16% want something even more liberal OR 59% dont agree with the conservative position.
     
  12. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I was making fun of polls. Pundits and DC take their polls way to serious.
    --- merged: Sep 29, 2013 at 10:56 AM ---
    See what I mean.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2013
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I didnt think you would like looking deeper into the polls to get a better understanding of those who oppose the ACA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2013
  14. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Did you say over 50% and I said about 60%?
     
  15. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Right...in the CNN poll about 60% dont support the Republican position.
     
  16. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    just found out my health insurance premium is almost doubling, and that was even after increasing my deductible to a level that will make me never visit the doctor. thanks obama!
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I hear this from conservatives, but I never see the data. Frankly, I dont believe it, but I would be interested in seeing the data filed with the state insurance commission, given that any "unreasonable" increase in premiums must be approved by HHS.

    Are you in an employer based plan or are you able to buy from the Insurance Exchange (in the case of IN, it would be the federal exchange).

    Bronze plans in IN are going for around $200-250/month (young and single) and include the 10 essential benefits, all of which may not be included in your existing plan.

    Health Plan Information | HealthCare.gov
    --- merged: Oct 2, 2013 at 3:06 PM ---
    more:

    These are average rates for a higher Silver plan from around the country.

    [​IMG]

    The rate filings in IN would show where its stands but I would be surprised if it is out of line with the above.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2013
  18. samcol

    samcol Getting Tilted

    Location:
    indiana
    paying $108 a month right now with $1200 deductible, employer does not provide insurance i get it personally. i have no clue what the exchange even is tbh. just got off phone with insurance agent and from her estimations from setting up other people's my age/sex/income it's looking like $287 month with $5k deductible when my plan expires. still pretty confused after talking to her three times this week.
     
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    If you are in the individual or small group market, I would encourage you to look at the table embedded in the link I posted for sample pricing for your county in IN. In the federal exchange, you have a choice of nearly 100 different plans from a bunch of (10+?) insurance companies.

    And compare your current benefits with the least costly (bronze) plan. A policy of $100/month is often a "junk plan" with lots of exclusions. Also, I'm pretty sure a $5k deductible is not allowable (except for a catastrophic plan).

    Also, keep in mind that your agent works on commission. Ask to see the rate filings with the state insurance commission.
    --- merged: Oct 2, 2013 at 3:37 PM ---
    Again, unless you are in a large group (employer) plan, I would encourage you to work through the application process and compare prices.

    Health Insurance Marketplace for Individuals | HealthCare.gov

    SHOP, Small Business Health Options Program | HealthCare.gov
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2013
  20. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Just heard and interview of Jack Lew, Treasury Secretary. He spoke about the Armageddon that will result if we fail to raise the debt ceiling. The hyperbole coming out the the Administration is over the top.

    First, if 80% of the government is operating, it is hard to argue that it is closed. If, the government is able to self identify, essential workers - there should not be any life and death issues, there should not be national defense issues, etc. Or are we to assume our government can not really even identify essencial workers? Secondly, if we face Armageddon why wouldn't you agree to delay Obamacare for a year - isn't Armageddon worse than a one year delay for the individual mandate? If you give the keys to a group of people you claim are determined to self-destruct - at what point do you actually take back the keys????? The rhetoric is beginning to get tiresome.