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Politics The Elephant in the room...The GOP today

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    I got your point. I just think it is a terrible idea.

    In a district of approximately 700,000 people, you are guaranteeing that many in any given district, if they are a minority or hold minority views on issues, will never have their interests represented by their elected official. In fact, it would likely be worse than the current gerrymandering where at least districts generally have a commonality of interest (by design).

    It would also most likely be in violation of the Voting Rights Act.

    I would much prefer that districts be made as competitive as possible so that many interests have an equal (or near) opportunity to be represented. It can be done if the politicians (legislators) are removed from the process and if multiple interests are represented equally on a commission (as opposed to the majority party in the state legislature having the overwhelming power as is presently the case in most states) .

    added:
    Fair Vote has some reasonable ideas for reform if you are interested in practical solutions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  2. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Using the analogy of tantrums - with good parenting tantrums have no impact and eventually the child stops. What is happening in the GOP is more than a small number of powerless elected officials throwing a tantrum. The GOP establishment has lost control. The GOP establishment has no plan. The GOP has a growing conservative base wanting results that they are unwilling to deliver. The GOP establishment needs to get on board or retire. Liberals, in my opinion, should actually work with the GOP establishment because if they don't, any future hope of compromise with a progressive agenda will be lost. To see the future, look to my state, NC. We have a Republican Governor, getting his Veto over-ridden by the Republican state legislature - all thanks to the 2012 elections. Go Tea Party!
     
  3. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Actually, from what it sounds like is the Dems are just holding their ground.
    They're standing back and letting the GOP shoot itself in the foot.
    Liberals are watching & snickering.

    You say "Go Tea Party"...but two things...one their polling is down, which could be arbitrary.
    And two...they're sponsoring the more extreme politicians who win in primaries...and are the ones not wanting to work with the liberals.
    So your positions are contradicting themselves.

    Then again, that's what I'm seeing in most of the GOP these days, contradiction.
    They say cooperate, but then don't cooperate. They say work with us, but then don't compromise.
    And this is not just with the Dems, Independents, Moderates and Liberals...but even with the leadership of the GOP or with their own members.

    And those at the top, are starting to realize they are fighting a losing position.

    The Dems simply let the conflict reign, let America get worn out by the chaos...then make sure they all show up at the polls in 2014.
    Then they won't have to cooperate...they'll be able to pass their progressive agenda by default.

    Sure you may get some leverage in NC...but you're momentum is lost on a national level.
    One or a few states don't make the whole nation.

    Right now, the GOP is making the Dems and Obama look like the adult in the room.
    And sorry, tantrums in the wrong place and time annoy the shit out of people...and gets you asked out.
    This is not the private enclosure of your own home, this is in public.
    And people are noticing... and frowning... (tsk, tsk, tsk...)
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2013
  4. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Or...

    The extreme element in the party are setting up moderates in the party to have a "reasonable" solution to put on the table that will put progressives in a very poor position. For example after Cruz - now a one year delay in the individual mandate sounds like an excellent idea. Then going into the 2014 elections....

    Let's just say that President Obama does not have a long-term strategic thinking mind.
     
  5. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Ace, great strategy, particularly given the current Tea Party popularity!
     
  6. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    And to reinforce the idea that this is absurd...the Money players are now getting involved.
    The title says it all..."Are you Nuts?"

    They just decided to double-down on their stand-off, coming up with a list of demands...

     
  7. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    The details of the House Republican proposed debt limit bill made the light of day:

    And yet, in a Republican caucus meeting and head count, Boehner could not even expect this extreme bill to receive enough Republican votes to pass....because the most extreme Tea Party members believe that this bill does not go far enough and wont support it.
    I almost feel sorry for Boehner....his inmates have taken over the asylum.
     
  8. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    At what point do we declare that they've jumped the shark? Has it happened yet? It's really hard to tell. If we call it too soon, we might get broadsided by sharks with frickin' lasers or something.
     
  9. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    If there is agreement but for a small number of aligned with the Tea Party, seems like it would not be a problem.
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM ---
    Imagine politicians running and winning on a promise and then actually following through on that promise to the best of their ability. I feel sorry for those who vote for politicians with no conviction. Rememer - Jobs, jobs, jobs. Remember - If you like your plan you can keep it. Remember - Closing Gitmo. Progressives have my sympathies.
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2013 at 11:33 AM ---
    Personally I like this happening in the light rather than in smoke-filled closed door rooms. In the end, it will work out one way or the other. And eventually Obamacare will be come to an end as it is now. The law as it is now is unsustainable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2013
  10. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I agree on both points, but on the latter, I think it would be dangerous for the current condition of the GOP to set a precedent or to become even worse. I hope equilibrium will bring American politics back closer to the centre.

    One would need to be incredibly naive to think that "Obamacare" would and/or should remain in its current form. At the same time, the position that it should be slashed and burned is counterproductive at best and incredibly destructive at worst. I doubt that any current universal health care system out there right now continues in its initial form. Canada's sure in hell doesn't. It underwent a number of additions and reforms to become the system it is today.

    I hold out a hope that America, the wealthiest nation in the world, will one day have universal health care. They can do it. I think "Obamacare" is an important step—it at least acknowledges the need to grant health care access to those denied it, and puts it into practice. Perhaps the next step is to reform the practice aspect.
     
  11. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    One only need look back 50 years to the passage of Medicare and the bumps in the road in implementation before its widespread acceptance and ultimately enthusiastic support:
    When Medicare launched, nobody had any clue whether it would work

    The scare tactics and fear mongering at the time was led by Operation Coffee Cup and folks like Reagan who warned that "subsidized medicine would curtail Americans' freedom.). Then fast track to the 80s when Reagan recognized and acknowledged the positive impact Medicare had on the life and lifestyle of the elderly and expanded the program.

    Significant legislative initiatives need time to breathe rather than be dismissed solely on ideological grounds before giving a chance to demonstrate their merits.
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2013 at 1:11 PM ---
    What is particularly unconscionable is the efforts in some Republican states to undermine the program.
    It is one thing to oppose the program on ideological grounds and it is another to purposefully make it more difficult for people in need to benefit from the program. It is the law of the land and many Republicans just cant accept it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2013
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    My favourite kind of politicking is the kind where the only true losers are poor people.
     
  13. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Fear not, Ace. A conservative group has indicted and convicted Obama in a people's court and will be coming to DC in November to demand that he surrender himself into their custody.

    Hope to see you there :)
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2013 at 7:09 PM ---
    Hey, its hard work to slash food stamps for the working poor, defund health care for the uninsured, provide tax cuts for the top one percent and protect bankers and Wall Street from further regulations or oversight.

    A busy month! One Republican House member complained how he was stuck there doing all that work while only making $172,000/year.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2013
  14. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Well, you know, the 1% are doing well, and you know how a rising tide lifts all boats! (Especially when they don't have Big Government on board to sink them....)
     
  15. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Ok, they're not terrorists...but they are holding a gun to the head.
    And they're also holding a gun to the head of themselves.
    Because if they do shoot, they're harming themselves too...they live in the nation also.

    Actually, if you think about it...it's more like they're threatening to put an axe to the boat we're all floating in...they'll drown too. :eek:
     
  16. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Have you talked to any of the people who have had their hours cut? Have you talked to any people who will no longer get health insurance through their employer and are going to be forced into the exchanges? have you talk to any young people who may not be able to afford even $100/month for the required coverage or face penalty which could end in jail time depending on the resulting tax issues - yes people can go to jail if in defiance of the IRS.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    An overwhelming majority of companies are not planning to drop employees insurance or cut workers hours. This from surveys of both large and small businesses and survey of employee benefits. Your anecdotes significantly overstate the issue.

    The individual mandate has exemptions for low income...those who currently below filing threshold and/or where the cost of the insurance would be greater than 8 percent of their income.

    No one is going to jail for not paying a fine of a couple hundred of year.
     
  18. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Has anyone in the GOP? That's the real question, isn't it?
     
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Trader Joes is one of those companies that the right points to with outrage as cutting benefits as a result of ACA.

    It has been grossly mischaracterized:
    So most low wage employees who lose benefits will get $500 towards a plan, along with subsidies on the Insurance Exchange that will result in their insurance costing less than the employer plan.

    And the employee with a spouse making $200,000 as an independent consultant w/o insurance will have to tough it out and dig into the spouse's deep pockets and get an affordable plan on the Exchange.
     
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto