Gay history to be taught in CA public schools.

I don't see a way to start treating them equally unless we stop treating them different. Stop acknowledging the differences. The civil rights movement really is a double edge sword.

 

Like the misogynists and racists before them, homophobes will be looked back on as being on the wrong side of history. I think it's an exciting time to see the positive steps the gay community is taking right now

 

I think ethnic differences persist in names and certain characteristics in addition to accents.

I agree that it's probably easier to see false differences due to gender and skin color variations. I don't expect that gender differences will ever really become a nonissue. It's too easy to use them as an excuse to justify insecurities. I have more hope that racial differences will eventually fade, if only because I have faith that as time progresses the rate of interracial reproduction will increase and eventually humanity will just be brown. Then we'll have to fall back on dehumanizing each other over our political differences.

I don't think favoring a particular oppressed minority is problematic in the short term. It isn't like the cultural and economic effects of institutional discrimination can be turned off at the flip of a switch. Even if active racism were to end completely tomorrow, we'd still have to deal with the long term social and economic problems created by decades of institutionalized racism.

 

Will it be acceptable for students to describe the class as "really gay?"

 

So is the curriculum going to discuss King James then? He was one of the best known homosexual rulers/monarchs/whatever and the only one to have his name attached to a Bible.

 

Why is it not significant that someone who faced overwhelming discrimination overcame that discrimination and managed to succeed?

Yes. They will also be able to describe their school's budget cuts as "really Jewish."

 

I think that their accomplishments should stand on their own. For example, am I the only person who thinks it just not that big of a deal that Obama isn't an old white guy? First black president? So...he's black, I really don't understand why that's any big deal.

 

I think that it's incredibly symbolically significant. It wasn't too long ago that Obama would have likely been property. Racism still exists in many places today. There were a whole lot of people who thought they'd never see a nonwhite president.

Of course, his skin color doesn't have anything to do with his ability to govern. That doesn't mean we can't use his election as an opportunity to appreciate the historical perspective it illuminates.

 

To not acknowledge the election of the first black man to the Presidency as significant would be, in my opinion, an attempt to completely ignore all that came before. To ignore just why it is significant.

This is not to suggest that at some point in time, we shouldn't all shrug and not see it as a big deal (much like being Irish or Italian in the US is no big deal), but at this time, it still is.

 

See, I don't think it's all that historically significant. I think celebrating him being the first black president is nothing more than saying look how far we've come, when in reality, we should never have been where we were in the first place. I seriously don't give two shits about the race, gender, religion, or sexual orientation of anybody I'm not having sex with. It just
isn't a big deal to me.
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I get what you are saying. I can appreciate that position. But, I don't think we, as humans, are there yet. We just aren't.

Racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. are still issues to be dealt with. A black president, like acceptance of gay marriage, is just a step on the road to complete normalization and... eventually, equality. It will only be when things are truly equal that people will truly shrug their shoulders and see no difference. In the meantime, I think that not only is shrugging of should premature, but actually playing into the hands (agenda?) of those who would like to see the continuation of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.

 

Who are "us" and who are "them"?
What are the similarities which make us us, and them them; which let us 'know' who we are pointing at?
What are the differences by which we determine the boundries between us and them?
And in a given context, which similarities and differences are significant, and which are not?

I believe it is important to notice and explore similarities and differences; then to notice and explore more. Much of education is based on that, as is this recent development in CA, which I applaud. Our studying and teaching the history, both fair and rough weather, of how we determine what is and is not significant when faced with sameness and difference, builds within us the process of our development into beings who may conscientiously deal in the moment rather than relying on overgeneralized maps and stereotypes; our development into beings who, encouraged to seek to identify the differences which make a real difference, may find them.

The "It's all good" or "We're actually kinda the same" of 'Tolerance' and 'Acceptance' may enable a global melting pot ... a higher order primeval soup ... a relatively safe collection point for potential learning. However, education in specifics from an early age may transform this into active appreciation of real value, thus titillating an unquenchable lust to discover and explore further differences, into a salad bowl ... a necessary buffet feast to nourish the increasingly diverse appetites which this information-rich world seeds within us.

 

We don't live in a perfect world. If you think those things are trivial you have not fought those battles.

 

I agree we aren't there as a society...yet. But the only way to get there is to decide to go there. Until that happens, we just won't. As long as we make a big issue abut those kinds of things, they will continue to be a big issue. It just should not matter.

 

Thank you B_G, that is exactly the point I was trying to make.

I would say, again, cj, that what you are suggesting is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand and hoping it will all go away. It won't, unless people are willing to struggle for justice and equality. Without that struggle, women would still not have the vote, or slavery would not have been abolished.

Would you not agree that it was a big deal when these benchmarks in history occurred? That giving women the vote and abolishing slavery are worthy of celebration or at least marking the occasion? It should also be noted that just because these events occurred, it did not mean that the struggle for justice and equality was over. There was still a lot of work to do in changing, not only the law, but also people's attitudes.

No amount of "not making a big deal out it" will bring about the change that is necessary to bring about the state where difference is normalized.

 

Privilege is invisible to those who enjoy it. I had to be hit over the head with it to realize how good I have it because I am a white heterosexual male.

 

I for one at school level, was not told that hitler decided to send gays to concentration camps - presumably to stop them breeding. Looking back I think it was wrong to shove a whole group of people into the closet, not to be talked about - everyone knows about Jews and Gypsies - but a suprisingly high number are unaware of the origin of the pink triangle.

 

I cannot answer for everyone else but yes, it is a huge, big deal that President Obama is of mixed race (his mother is Caucasian). It was before his time but not his father's when blacks in America were lynched (killed and strung up) for their skin colour. It was such a big deal that he was assigned more security than any prior presidential candidate--based on the real fear that someone would attempt to kill him because he is half-black. It shouldn't have been a big deal but apparently there are many people who deemed his running for prez an aberration that is a threat to the American way.