Where is your line?

That is the essence of what I want to discuss here.
If you accept the argument that we are all individuals, then you have to concede that we all have our own individual moral compass & level of awareness of the world around us.
I accept that some (if not most) of our morals are dictated to us at a young age from various sources.
Parents, family, school, town, friends, country, wealth, world events, ect…
But that internal voice that makes us stop & say “No, this is wrong”
Where does that come from?
And have you ever come up against your own personal "too far" & been forced to do something?
-Taliesin

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View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkthGp77h1U
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Haven't checked out the YouTube thing. But I've checked out my moral compass for decades. I haven't had to make an argument that I'm an individual (nor have I asked others to argue this—though I have a friend who claims to be an extraterrestrial when she's, well, In A State).

But I think you have in mind that our moral compass is highly likely to be individualized, which seems indisputable (except with the kinds of persons we'd call lemmings or True Believers). However, the individuality of it is also likely to be commonsensical, i.e., we want to "be Individual" like everyone else is (something which is legion with teens). This is why morals can be dictated. Keep in mind that a paternalistic parent only succeeds because the child accepts paternalism. A paternalistic parent and a willful child will disagree about what's going to prevail. An authoritarian parent will punish the willful child. A good parent will enjoy understanding the child's growing ability to act independently, which should lead (through good parenting and good teaching) to a truly individual moral compass, commonly known as good sense (which is flexible and adaptive, not dogmatic and strict).

The internal voice comes from conscience, which may be parental, etc., but the character of having it is an ability to find in one's present experience the kind-ness (type of experience) that it is, which has associated with it guidelines for action that "one" does. Standardly, a good parent says at times something like "No, Teliesin, this is what we do." "What we do" is the prevailing guideline. If you accept that, you may recognize, in a given situation, that the guideline is called into play. You may be afraid to violate the guideline (dictatorially induced), respect the value that the guideline embodies (an individual holding good of the guideline), or you may see the guideline as something "one respects," but you choose not to. (I think of artists.)

So, one may come up against your own personal "too far" and decide to do something, not because you're forced to, but because you value the boundary. You might also extend the boundary, deciding that the given "too far" was not far enough. This is the case when one is called upon to show courage in dark woods.

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The basics of my morality are simple, and relate mostly to the external. Don’t hurt other people. I’ve called myself a Wiccan for many years. Despite my ongoing doubts and internal debates about the nature of deity and existence, the Wiccan Rede has always made sense to me. “An it harm none, do what ye will.” If you’re not hurting anyone, do what your heart and will lead you to do.

But that’s the thing about morality. It’s not simple. On a day by day basis you have to interpret it to your situation. Is lying to someone harming them? Can inaction cause someone to come to harm? These are the sorts of things that each individual has to think about to develop their own sense of morality.

I understand intellectually that people come to the morals that were driven into them from a young age, but I don’t see that as an excuse for anyone who has a sense of self-determination. As you become a free-willed and free-thinking adult, I think everyone has an obligation to themselves to and to those around them to put some thought into their own personal moralities. As an example, I’ve never understood the ‘moral’ concern regarding masturbation. Who’s it hurting? Is it hurting God’s sensibilities? I think he’s seen worse.

In my case, I’ve been a soldier for most of my adult life. It’s a profession that causes (or should cause) an introspective analysis of morality.

It’s easy to rationalize harming someone to protect yourself or someone you care about. It’s not much of a stretch to extend that to harming people to protect someone you don’t know. Police have to do it regularly. But the soldier’s lot is to cause harm in defense of a general populace, in defense of a nation. In some conflicts, even that might be a relatively easy choice. It’s national kill or be killed. A country, similar to a person, has a right to defend itself.

The conflicts we have these days aren’t so clear cut. I’ve served during the current ‘War on Terror.’ I’ve been to combat areas, and been in the harm or be harmed situations. But it’s harder to rationalize this as a national act of self defense. We (as a nation) were attacked, yes, but not by a sovereign nation. It’s highly speculative whether this conflict has had any effect on our national safety. On an individual, boots on ground situation, it’s easier. I have to act to protect myself and my fellow soldiers. But it still keeps me up some nights because I know that if the tables were turned, if our country were the one invaded, I might be the one out there placing bombs and sniping from the trees.

That’s why it frustrates me when people say “I don’t follow politics.” It bothers me when people don’t research who they want to vote for, or vote strictly based on a party, or don’t vote at all. Because there are people like me out there who have surrendered our personal morality to that of the nation’s. We’re counting on you to make the right decisions, because we swore an oath to abide by them.

So to answer your question: yes. I have had to explore my personal moral boundaries and push them. I think most people have, to one extent or another, at some point. The individuality lies in that we all have to live with our own decisions.

Sorry about my wall of text, that's more than I usually type in one go.

 

Haha. Don't worry. It doesn't matter. It is just the song i was listening to when i thought of this thread.

I like this. You are better with words than me.
I agree that a child has to accept paternalism. I understand that a student has to be ready to receive any lessons.
I'm currently sorting through my moral compass. Trying to understand why i draw my lines where i do. Seeing what will push my buttons.

That sounds good to me as well. Can you recommend any basic book for an outsider to learn about the Wiccan Rede?

I suppose this cuts to the heart of what i'm currently pondering.
At what age do we become a "free-willed & free-thinking adult" in this modern Western society?
I'm 27. I've been paying off a mortgage for about 8 years. But my brother has been living with me all of that time. and my parents have always lived close.
This year my parents sold the family home. This effectively cut my ties with the old town. I don't know why.
I still own my house there. I still have friends there.
But i'm now planning on renting it out & investing in another property.

It's like a cloud was lifted when that house was sold & now i can plan a future.
I'm looking at my life & discovering alot of the things i do, i do because my parents have always done it.

Excellent.
I'm glad the question drew you out.