Trayvon Martin.

Typically, when I can handle things, I don't make offhand comments about how said things have dissuaded me from participating in certain activities in the past. I just, you know, handle things. But by all means, complain about the quality of a discussion *as* you reduce that quality with a passive aggressive comment about how you're typically above participating in that kind of discussion.

 

That attitude, sadly, was or is very common in many police agencies in my experience. Granted my experience with minorities is limited due to the main locations I worked. But going to meeting with statewide or regional representation and listening to officers assigned to neighborhoods that were mainly minorities was eye opening. Shit like "let them kill each other, saves our ammo" was common. In fact PDX PD made t-shirts saying that and a t-shirt saying "Choke'em don't smoke'em" after an officer choked a young man to death. Once those shirts hit the local news officers were suspended and letters of reprimand added to files but the attitudes didn't change one bit.

 

I hear you. The city I used to live in had its share of tragic deaths. Nothing on par with Chicago, but still. Tragedy is tragic on any scale.

I think that there are a lot of useful discussion to have concerning Trayvon Martin, and I've tried to have them with my kids. I don't think there's any use at all in pretending like there isn't anything to see here, or that because black on black crime is high, there is little value in talking about Trayvon Martin instead of black on black crime.

 

I don't like pretending that Trayvon Martin is indicative of the main problem. The overt kind of racism demonstrated by his death is not the real issue in this country; it is the more subtle racism that keeps the vast majority black American impoverished, uneducated and with few - if any - avenues of escape from the cycle of violence.

 

I don't know how you can separate the two.
--- merged: Jul 17, 2013 at 1:05 PM ---
I mean, there are plenty of examples of both covert and overt racism in this situation. How can you claim that only one comes into play or that there's no interaction between the two?

 

I don't. I identify subtle racism as the greater problem of the two for society at large. George Zimmerman exhibited both subtle and overt racism in the events that led to Trayvon Martin's death - they're intertwined in what he did. My point, though, is that Martin's death is not a sign of a greater societal problem; Sterling Brown's is. That there's not media beating down the door of every witness or friend of Sterling's on the South Side of Chicago (Back of the Yards for you locals) for a 5-year old who was gunned down in his bed seems to me to be the sign of a much larger problem than a teen who died due to the mistakes of his eventual killer along with his own (20/20 hindsight is great, yo).

 

No, they're not the same, which is why I made the distinction. However, they are very definitely related, perhaps inextricably so. I would even go so far as to say that often overt racism works hard to mask itself as the subtle version in order to gain more acceptance. Case in point: the backlash against Ice-T for the lyrics of "Cop Killer" in the 80's.

 

I disagree with the idea that Martin's death is not a sign of greater societal problems. The whole situation is a microcosm of the social problems of our society. The Trayvon Martin case could be used as a case study in what's wrong with race in America. I'm sure the Sterling Brown case could too.

On the other hand, as a white dude, I get uncomfortable playing some sort of "This dead black kid is more important than that dead black kid" game. And I reject the implication that people who care about Trayvon Martin don't care about Sterling Brown or that the net benefits of focusing on Martin would be insignificant relative to the benefits of focusing on Sterling Brown.

Could you see yourself responding to Rosa Parks arrest with "Well, but fighting for the right to not sit at the back of the bus is insignificant when you consider all of the other problems black people are faced with."? I bet Borla would.

 

Agreed. This blog here says it well enough that I wouldn't bother trying to say it again.

 

Since Bodkin is ignoring me in this thread as he focuses on pissing in Borla's cargo pocket, I'll switch it up.

Let's blame Trayvon for contributing to the incident:

I hope that's racist / paranoid enough to make the cut.

 

I think you're needlessly insulting Borla. That's not at all what he's written.

I don't see Trayvon Martin as any sort of "best example" of anything, save for proof of the law of unintended consequences being in full force for internet outrage. Trayvon's death became national news through social media, which the news media have gotten very canny at exploiting (to the point where something like "Tosh.0" has become possible). Unfortunately there were no eyewitnesses, so it is entirely possible (although not probable) that Zimmerman's version of events is 100% true and Travyon pounded Zimmerman's head against the curb numerous times. And I'm sorry, but if that's happening to someone, regardless of race, the person being injured has the right to pull the trigger. We'll never know what really happened, but what I do know is that I'm not playing the "more important" game. I am simply pointing out that focusing all this energy on Zimmerman and Martin draws attention away from the real problems.

Kind of like saying "Wow, Rosa Parks sat at the front of the bus. It didn't help Emmitt Till, though. Maybe we should make sure that people aren't dying first."

 

It is hard to believe that next month marks the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington and MLK's historic "I have a dream" speech.

We've come a long way in eliminating institutional racism through legislation, although with recent enactment of laws that disproportionately impact minorities (photo voter ID, defunding Title X, legalized profiling, disparities in the criminal sentencing, etc), it is no wonder that for every two steps forward, Blacks in America might feel they are forced to take one step back. And then add the sense of injustice that many feel as a result of this case.

Where we have failed is in addressing more subtle racism and race relations at a personal level. As a White majority country, I dont think we have the will to have a serious national dialogue without the politics....and the result is that the existing racial strains rear their ugly head when events like this smack us in the face.

Sadly, maybe it will take another 50 years.

 

Is racism in the US any better or worse than racism in Europe or the rest of the world?

If so, what does that say? And if not, how did they go about all blunt-forcing change?

I feel like it's pretty much the same everywhere. I guess I should go look that one up.

Nastiest hatred I've come across has been in the Middle East. They take the cake.

Straight-up murdering each other for what seems like Democrat/Republican stuff.

 

I disagree, and I think Borla can defend himself.

Right, because originally, the national media didn't give a shit. Just like the national media tends to not give a shit when minorities die. But then something happened and national media did give a shit. Hey, we've got everybody talking about race and injustice, let's do something with that energy other than try to dismiss it by pretending to care about black on black crime (not saying you're doing this, Jazz).

Even if it is 100% true, Zimmerman followed a child because he thought the child looked suspicious. Then, when that child started kicking his ass (not an unreasonable response to some creepy motherfucker following you as you walk alone at night), he shot him. What's your point?

Wait, am I correct in that you are implying that there are no real problems that come up in the context of Martin's killing?

Or, saying "Why are we focusing all this energy on Rosa Parks, when the real problems are X?" Never mind that by focusing on Rosa Parks type events, the impetus for change can be developed that drastically improves X.
Let's focus on everything.

 

Calling Trayvon Martin a child is like calling Miley Cyrus a little girl.

All those pics of him at age 10 on CNN are misleading.

Physically speaking, he was a grown-ass man.

 

Legally he was a child. He wasn't adult enough to be eligible to benefit from the SYG law that saw his killer get away with murder.

 

If you disagree with the SYG law, that's fine. You can't, however, say that Tubby McZimmerpants got away with murder because six of his peers said he was a-okay.

Something-something-OJ-Simpson.​

Nitpicky, I know, but that's the justice system. Perhaps if we'd put men on the jury instead of women. You know how racist and bloodthirsty women are these days.

 

My point is that when you're getting your ass kicked, you have the right to defend yourself, even if the ass-kicking is being administered because you're an idiot. If the only way to get the kid to stop dribbling your dome off the curb is to shoot him, that's reasonable. Especially if he took the first swing, which is what Zimmerman alleged. That doesn't preclude Zimmerman from being punish (so long as there's not a fucking stupid law like the FL SYG one stopping it), but it means that you have a right to defend yourself. Just like it was fine for Ida B. Wells to say that every black home should have a Winchester rifle in it during the height of the lynching.

You're absolutely not correct. I'm simply saying that Trayvon Martin is a poster child only for Trayvon Martin and that he's not even indicative of the biggest problem out there. Seems to me that you're overly concerned about Titanic deck chair placement. Or Mrs. Lincoln's opinion of "Our American Cousin".

No, how about we focus on the thousands of young black men by other young black men that are killed every year in the US? That is overwhelmingly the largest killer of young black men, not white men. It's not that it's a problem in the black community - it's a problem in OUR community.

Huzzah! The point! Here it is again!

 

Right. What's your point with this?

Okay, because you literally said "I'm not playing the "more important" game. I am simply pointing out that focusing all this energy on Zimmerman and Martin draws attention away from the real problems." so I was just checking.

I'm preeety sure you don't know what I'm concerned with.

You don't think we can do both? This is what I don't get.
--- merged: Jul 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM ---

Actually, I can totally say that he got away with murder. I just did. I bet I will again.
--- merged: Jul 17, 2013 at 2:56 PM ---

Actually, I can totally say that he got away with murder. I just did. I bet I will again.