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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Meaning, proud to be ignorant...and very self-serving.
     
  2. Derwood

    Derwood Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    How on earth are we still talking about this woman?
     
  3. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It's America.

    You know, I often think about the contrast between American and Canadian politics. American politics is very entertaining in a ridiculous sense, while Canadian politics is quite sober in comparison.

    When you have a large and wealthy population, I guess it allows for more bombast and ridiculousness.

    I know it's more than that, of course. America isn't just wealthy, it's also very conservative at a time when conservatism can no longer run rampant or operate under its previously comfortable assumptions.

    I guess Palin represents a kind of beacon of a bygone age in American culture. I can see why people would want to reach out to that and spread it further. I can also see how it can be harmful to wider society.

    After all, it kept "liberal" Obama firmly in the centre-right.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Well, I can tell you this...no matter who it came from...the prevention of patent trolls would be a god-send to glutted system.
    Obama is right to focus on this, I only wish it happened sooner.

     
  5. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    This is good news!

    Let's see how those who are against Obama can spin this to show how Obama is anti-business. Should only take a few minutes.
     
  6. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Obama signed the America Invents Act is his first term - the first significant patent reform in 50+ years.

    This should offer even more protection.
     
  7. ASU2003

    ASU2003 Very Tilted

    Location:
    Where ever I roam
    It is needed, that is for sure.
     
  8. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    No I don't know death panels are a myth. Is the problem one of semantics?


    How would you describe this situation in simple terms. I would say this is an example of a death panel. a situation where bureaucrats have the power to arbitrarily make life and death decisions. Thank God (or insert your word) for the Judge making the correct decision!
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 6:20 PM ---
    Who holds the view you describe? It is not a position held by anyone who posts here. I have never read any post with a citation to anyone who holds the view. So, when you use the word "with" - you imply a joining of two concepts. This is a weak, intellectually dishonest technique used as a diversion. Try and do better or understand that b.s. will get called out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  9. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Aceventura do you always go back to the previous arguments to start them up again?
    Or you just like ignoring the flow of the conversation?

    I thought we finished with that particular earlier back & forth...we're onto the new Patent acts.
    What do you think about that?
     
  10. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Working hard.
    Having a loving family.
    Getting involved in government.
    Taking a risk in the face of opposition.
    Do and saying what you think is right.
    Not apologizing for being American.
    Having courage.
    Responding with dignity.
    Sacrificing what is good for the individual for what is good for others.

    Are these the types of things you are talking about?
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 at 2:30 PM ---
    When I am away for awhile I go back and read from where I left off. I post what I want to respond too and I assume others do the same. I do not factor in "the flow of the conversation" - I also assume if readers don;t want to read my posts, they won't.

    Have not gotten there yet.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Before we get to semantics, help me out here.

    Are you suggesting a federal policy enacted under Bush that cut the mortality rates among lung-transplant patients in half is tantamount to a death panel?

    Or are you suggesting this federal judge ordering a girl be moved to the list is tantamount to a death panel?

    Where are these bureaucrats making these so-called arbitrary life and death decisions?
     
  12. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I think there is a symbiotic relationship between big business and big government. Government restricts competition for big business, and big business supports the political infrastructure of big government. Small, business and consumers pay the price. Patent law goes to far in supporting patent holder rights.
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 at 2:41 PM ---
    Yes. It doesn't matter who initiated the arbitrary rules empowered by the bureaucrats that are the death panel. In my view, the young ladies doctor, parents, and available donors should make the decision. A market based response. Any time an outside party controls the decision based on financial reason I would consider that control a death panel. My view is not complicated, not nuanced, not political, not ideological. If we want a system that involves death panels, I can live with it, just call it what it is.

    Yes. One death panel made a decision that was overridden by another.

    Literally? Or, do you want a citation of the regulations in question in this case or in general?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  13. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    What makes you think the rules are arbitrary? Do you think the mortality rate of lung-transplant patients being cut in half was a fluke? Do you think slashing the wait times by 84% was a fluke?

    A market-based medical system would pose too many problems, which is why it doesn't exist. For starters, what if this girl's family couldn't afford a costly transplant surgery? Also, a market-based system would have those with the financial resources get priority even when medical suitability isn't optimal. That could lead to a higher mortality rate than the current system. When would the market itself become a "death panel"?

    This isn't a case where decisions are made for financial reasons. They are made for medical reasons, and it's based on scarcity of lungs, not financial resources.

    I don't see your case for any "death panel" here. Maybe it's because you don't see what's really gone on here. Usually, the mention of "death panels" refers to Sarah Palin's ridiculous and false claims regarding one aspect of "Obamacare."

    Though I will admit I'm happy to see a little girl got an adult lung when a pediatric one wasn't available. I hope no adults need to suffer as a result. Transplant surgery is a tough medical field, I'm sure.
     
  14. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    You left out Miss Alaska second runner-up in 1984.


    John Shimkus, a high ranking Republican member of the House Energy (and Commerce Committee)
    Shimkus appeared to wholly reject any potential for man-made climate consequences due to his faith that only God can "destroy this Earth."​
    "I believe that's the infallible word of God, and that's the way it's going to be for his creation," Shimkus said.​
    Then he quoted Matthew 24:31.​
    "And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of the heavens to the other."​
    "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a Flood," Shimkus asserted. "I do believe that God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect."​

    And lets not forget Paul Braun, a high ranking member of the House Science (and Technology) Committee and a medical doctor who believes that evolution and the Big Bang theoriy are "lies straight from the pits of Hell"
    You see, there are a lot of scientific data that I’ve found out as a scientist that actually show that this is really a young Earth. I don’t believe that the Earth’s but about 9,000 years old. I believe it was created in six days as we know them. That’s what the Bible says.​
    What I’ve come to learn is that [the Bible is] the manufacturer’s handbook, is what I call it. It teaches us how to run our lives individually, how to run our families, how to run our churches. But it teaches us how to run all of public policy and everything in society. And that’s the reason as your congressman I hold the holy Bible as being the major directions to me of how I vote in Washington, D.C., and I’ll continue to do that.​

    These guys are responsible for setting national policy on energy and science for crying out loud. Their policy positions are not based on morality but on a literal interpretation of the word of the Bible.
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 at 3:14 PM ---
    Yes please, cite the text of the Affordable Care Act or any subsequent regulations.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  15. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    It reminds me of this:

    I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate.​

    —Gary Goodyear, Canada's federal Minister of State for Science & Technology, when asked by The Globe & Mail, Canada's national daily newspaper of record, whether he believes in evolution​

    This happened in 2009 amidst his making controversial cuts to research programs. In 2011, he was subsequently re-elected and reappointed to the same position by the Prime Minister.
     
  16. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I am not the only one, even the Judge agrees with me.

    The rule is related to a person of a certain age. The age has nothing to do with the issue, the issue is fit or will it work. the age cut off is completely arbitrary, a convenience for bureaucratic decision makers. why not look at these matter on a case by case basis, even if you are going to use a death panel?

    I think you miss the primary point as illustrated in these questions. If it is my daughter, I know the decision I would support given the options and percetages of success. What would you do?

    Maybe people like me would give money for this cause. Maybe doctors would cut their rates. Maybe hospital would do the same. Maybe I would serve as an organ donor and others would be more prone to do the same in cases like this.

    Other than that - I am on record. I would support unconditional healthcare for every child. absolutely no questions asked, no matter what the expense!


    I defined how I use the term/concept, you have not. And the term, its use, predates Obamacare. Obamacare centralizes and puts more emphasis on death panels and under Obamacare we will see more and more situations like the one illustrated here.
     
  17. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Ace...your example has nothing to do with the ACA but rather medical policies and practices in extreme cases in which a court intervenes...much like the Terry Schiavo case.
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 at 4:13 PM ---
    Again, please cite the text or regulations that support this unfounded conclusion.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  18. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Is this some kind of sexist remark? Sarcasim? What? I am not sure how to take it.


    So, your point is to take what the guy says out of context. "destroy this earth" - Is climate change going to destroy the earth?​



    I disagree with his view. Now what?​

    Then we should vote them out of office or not put them in positions of responsibility in Congress. We should argue our own positions on these issues. Etc. I prefer when people honestly say what they truly believe - what we do not typically do is ask liberals how they reconcile their religious views with science. I do not agree that religion is off limits - do you? I do not believe we can separate people from their religion (even when they say they have none), do you? I do not believe we can separate religion (morality) from government, do you? consider these questions rhetorical - they have been on the table in the past and there is no need to discuss them further in my opinion.

    Consider it cited. The whole thing, read it.
    --- merged: Jun 6, 2013 at 4:29 PM ---
    I responded to a general question regarding death panels. I responded and defined how I use and understand the term/concept. I further explained the term/concept as it relates to Obamacare. I have never held the position that death panels are an invention of Obamacare. My taste of death panels administered by insurance companies is no more palatable than if they are administered by government.

    Another example, mammograms. government sets guidelines on when and when they are not recommended, implying at some point when they will and will not be paid for - not a role of government, panels or bureaucrats in my opinion. it is an issue between a woman and her doctor - knowing the woman and her history! there is no one size fits all solution.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 13, 2013
  19. redux

    redux Very Tilted

    Location:
    Foggy Bottom
    Lighten up.



    The fact remains that these guys are getting elected because the more extreme social conservatives have driven others out of the party.

    There is a clear distinction between morality and blind faith in the literal word of the Bible. One is a valid base for public policy and one is not as much as you might like to make the two interchangeable.



    I agree that the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network (OPTN) is administered under contract with HHS and has been since the 80s under Reagan's "big government intrusion" National Organ Transplant Act.

    Where in the ACA or regs does it change the process by which the OPTN makes decisions?
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  20. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    We both know the policy is under review. But I find it hard to believe there would be that many cases where adult lungs would be more suitable in a child than in an adult.

    Your criticism of a policy comes down to an appeal to emotions in a "what-if?" scenario. You're missing the point of the policy. It was designed to save lives, which it did quite successfully. I cannot comment on why it left out pediatric lungs and children under a certain age. Either way, this is hardly a "death panel."

    Maybe, maybe, maybe. Maybe so, maybe no. Why put it to chance? Why not look at data and make decisions based on knowledge rather than faith?

    The policy should be reviewed, but it is hardly ideal to go to a market-based health care system as a result of this.

    The idea of a two-tier system isn't new. It's mostly a question of how without making the system worse and unethical.

    Why would I define a term you're trying to use?

    Your definition is murky. Maybe use a better example to help elucidate.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013