Unwanted sexual attention in the US?

I can see these words comes up now and then in the US regarding clothing, breast size, cleavage and so on. So what is unwanted sexual attention, and is there a lower tolerance to this type off attention in the US? If a man tells a woman that she has a nice butt, is it considered unwanted sexual attention in the US if it comes from some one she is not interested in?

I live in Norway and have a Polish girl friend and i think the concept of dressing down to avoid "Unwanted sexual attention" has never occurred to her. (of course she want to give a good impression at work and so on, but that is something else). She also have large breasts and have been several times asked about her breast size and been stared up on, but never seen it as unpleasant or her fault. According to her most Eastern European woman likes to get attention regardless from whom.

 

It makes more sense if you consider that in america there's an ironclad cultural narrative of female victimization and all men being inherently considered aggressive predators.

 

Considering that many men are, it's deserved. Also we have a very prudish view on sex. Much less visible in our culture than in Europe. As a society we are overly protective. Meanwhile, behind closed doors....

 

Is it deserved? In many cases women range from just as likely to abuse to more likely to abuse than men.

It's not just a matter of prudishness. A reaction like Solaris' friend doesn't reinforce the narrative that male attention is inherently victimizing, in a way to legitimizes some kinds of male behavior. Now admittedly I was raised to find that kind of behavior boorish or disrespectful most of the time but there's a far extreme to both situations. Catcalling and ogling is at one end, getting in trouble just for *looking* at a woman is at the other. I think the ideal is somewhere around the middle where you can respectfully appreciate someone just like a good painting.

Well, maybe a little less, little f#@%er in the striped shirt's a pain in the ass to find sometime.

 

What the press release siad: "... almost one-fourth of relationships had violence, about half of which was reciprocal, and the researchers were "surprised" to find that "in nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70 percent of the cases," and men incurred significant injuries "

What the Add Health survey (which, btw, is a truly amazing project) actually measured: In heterosexual couples aged 18 to 28, 70% of nonreciprocal violence of any nature or severity that was reported was perpetrated by women.

That's cherry picked data to support a political stance, not an intellectually honest presentation of data. Women are the victims of intimate partner violence much more often than men and are twice as likely to be killed by an intimate partner than men (source). For adolescents, the data on dating violence are a lot less clear for a few reasons. The first big one is that most studies on the subject have used the Conflict Tactics Scale, criticisms of which are summarized pretty well on its Wikipedia page. The other big one, which the inadequacies of the CTS contributes to, is that much of the raw data doesn't specify nature or severity, which means that reciprocal violence numbers include self-defense. When you start to separate out the data, girls tend to be injured much more severely in cases of physical violence and girls are the vast majority of victims of sexual assault by dating partners (source).

 

If a woman is raped or otherwise molested in the United States though we use the term for her as a "rape victim" ultimately she is very often treated as though she is a criminal herself. I have known multiple females who have been raped as an adult or molested as a child/teenager. They are told for one not to talk about it because it somehow reflects on her personal behavior and they are also taught through the dialogues that follow these conversations that ultimately women choose, encourage or otherwise support their own rapes. We asked for it, right? We dressed too provocatively, we were out too late, we were on the wrong side of town, we had no business going to that place, we drank alcohol or did drugs, or we were too flirtatious. I do not abide by any of this but I have seen countless childhood friends, coworkers etc go through this with the courts, with their parents and siblings and their own spouses. It is all about what you may have done to encourage it. Honestly a woman who is raped is more likely to get support from a stranger off the street than their own family because frankly it seems the majority treat the victim as though they had it coming or were a slut who deserved it or otherwise made up the story due to their own regret.

I am sorry if my truthfulness offends anyone out there. So do you still wonder why we can be a little uptight?

Nice ass. Sorry, but that does tend to make a woman feel like she is a hunk of sirloin ready to be tenderized. Outside of a couple already in a relationship it could be said a lot more tactfully and romantically. I wouldn't mind if my SO made comments about my breasts, ass, legs or whatever but frankly it is a bit too intimate for some unknown John Doe to say to me. From John Doe it would be far more appropriate to say that I really make that dress work, that shirt looks great on you, or a comment about how I look nice on that particular day. I think the majority of decent women in the US have a distaste for a man who reacts to her as if he has just met his next fuck toy.

 

I think the Europeans and Australians/Kiwis are much more sensible and doing the right thing than the rest of the world when it comes to human anatomy, nudity, sex, and culture.

 

It's a minefield out there.

All the same dynamics in play in the local club are in play in office buildings as well, except that in the workplace the stakes can be higher.

What is unwanted sexual attention? Whatever it is that's unwelcome. Too many comments from a boss about how great she looks in her dress as his eyeballs bulge out of his sockets is unwelcome if she's fully aware it won't get her anywhere. It might be entirely welcome if she thinks it is likely to get her a raise or a bump up the corporate ladder.

The sleazebucket from the helpdesk who always finds a reason to be at her workstation is unwelcome unless he's not a sleazebucket and she thinks she'd probably fuck him in the restroom if she wasn't married.

The needy and annoying male co-worker who is constantly bringing her little presents and insisting he walk her to her car after work is unwelcome if he sets off her creep-o-meter. I struggle to think of an instance when this wouldn't be unwelcome.

Overt sexual attention like constant touching and sexually charged comments are unwelcome unless they're not.

Some women welcome and invite them no matter who the man or what the circumstance. Some, only with certain men. Some avoid it altogether, leaving their sexual selves at home and repelling any and all overtures. It depends on the woman, really. I think most women dress according to the environment and the sort of image they want to put across. A woman with big breasts who shows up every day showing a lot of cleavage may want to be admired, yet taken seriously. Only she knows if it can be pulled off.

 

I just wold like to re-explain one thing. In the European country's i know, it's still not common to say to a unknown woman that she has a nice ass or stair at her boobs. What i meant is that when some one do, they will probably get a little proud, a little embarrassed and or think the man is a bit odd. But they will not blame them self for dressing hot or fieel like a victim.

 

Really? Australia, where censors regulate the porn industry like crazy? Even in terms of labia shape and size!

 

In the example of the sleazebucket from the help desk that is hanging around he's female co worker. Some of his male colleagues might tell him to do some work and not hang around admiring miss X boobs. She might tell him to not disturb her. However i don't think she will fell bad, feel like a victim or take the blame for he's behavior in the same way.

 

I have to agree with everything jonie says up there. I no longer get any particular enjoyment out of attention from men. I've gotten it all my life and I've had enough. I imagine that a lot of women who get to my age and have been around the block or two and who don't need to satisfy self-doubt about their attractiveness into middle age feel the same way. So basically, if you're a male who is not already my friend and are talking to me because you think I'm cute or attractive or whatever, it's highly likely that I am irritated with you and am actively on the lookout for an opportunity to get the hell away from you. The older I get, the more unwanted advances from men are just tiresome monkey charades. This is particularly a pain in the ass at work because I am trapped, behind the desk, where a variety of (mostly old) men feel it's ok to stand there taking up my time with inane flirtation.

What's more, even with scrubs on I catch men looking at my tits. And I don't even wear the fancy new fitted scrubs that they make now - just boxy, old traditional scrubs. You can't see anything in them, it's so ridiculous.

I don't feel like a victim and I don't think men are predators. I'm not prudish or uptight. I'm just tired of it. I want out of that game, but apparently one doesn't really have a choice in the matter.

 

In the US, he would be sent to HR at minimum, and fired a lot of the times since the company could get sued by the woman for having a hostile workplace.

And yes, even with the small porn thing, Australia at least has a political Sex Party. The Australian Sex Party
I doubt they are enforcing that labia thing much anyways.

 

Another example would beeing braless.

I have been told that it in the US (present day not in the 60's) is regarded as almost being semi nude. And that it automatically is perceived as an sexual invitation. Some might think she dresses like a prostitute. She might not be allowed in to a train or so on. Some might say if she is being raped she has to blame her self.

Most woman wear a bra over her, but if the don't is not such a big deal as i think it is in the US.

However is must add that some immigrants unfortunately think that a woman dressing hot are inviting (any men) to fuck her or to harass or touch her is perfectly OK. It's a cultural crash.
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I don't know much about australia, but i know it's perfectly OK to be topless on the beach. It's not a big deal. The same goes for Scandinavia, Germany and to some extend in Poland. I have heard that you can get arrested in the US.

 

Depends on the state. In Ohio, where I live, it's legal to be topless in public.

 

I didn't know that. I expect an exodus of male TFP members, all heading to Ohio now. Following the little brain as they are wont to do.

 

I have never seen a topless woman in Ohio outside of a strip club...and I have been looking.

 

Clearly, you haven't ever been to Comfest.

 

It's sometimes hard to say what crosses the line, because the line is very subjective. That said, obviously, there is a certain minimum level of behavioral decorum that anyone should follow. It's crass to hit on someone at work (shared or yours or hers), or wolf-whistle at a girl you don't know, or stare like a fucking gomer.

Basically, dudes should behave like reasonable facsimiles of gentlemen. The flip side is that girls should try not to have a stick up their collective ass about guys hitting on them, presuming said hitting on them is being done at an appropriate place and time, in a comparatively graceful way.

But when in doubt, the dude's rule should always be to cool it. Aside from the fact that it's just good manners, girls appreciate it. As one girl I had a thing with in college memorably said: "You know what really gets a girl hot and wet? Respect."

It is true that overall, America tends to be a bit on the puritanical and humorless side when it comes to sex in society. But if even that's the case, I tend to think that it's better to err just a little on the side of trying to create a culture that's a little more respectful of women, considering that we have a long way to go in that area, pretty much everywhere in the world.

 

Nope, too cold. Anything north of Gainesville's too cold.