The debates on the Debates

Romney: “He said that I said we should take Detroit bankrupt. And that’s right. My plan was to have the company go through bankruptcy like 7-Eleven did and Macy’s and Continental Airlines and come out stronger.

Except for the fact that Continental Airlines is no more.

and 7-eleven went into bankruptcy in 1990 (do we really have to go back that far to find a success story, Mitt?) with a pre-packaged deal where the Japanese co. Ito-Yokado would buy 70% of the debt. Hardly an apples to apples comparison to the prospects for a Detroit car industry bankruptcy.

 

Republicans were outraged over Biden interrupting Ryan...

I wonder if they'll be as outraged over Romney interrupting last nights moderator.

 

Yes, he did. However, he certainly didn't come across as arrogant or bullying towards her.

The funniest moment for me was the Libya crap Romney tried to pull. He blundered that big time.

edit: Also, I think Romney may have lost points with independents based not only on his attitude towards her, but how he seemed to ignore the person asking a question. When you say shit like "thanks for asking, but I'll get to that later" it doesn't exactly show you care about that voter.

 

He wasn't much more woman friendly at Bain either. In fact, I was wondering why he didn't mention anything about his recruiting and hiring practices at Bain. Guess this 'splains it.

Fact check: Romney’s record of hiring women - Boston.com

In terms of lying when it was unnecessary to do so, while knowing that these sorts of comments are so easy to fact check, I think Mitt's "Binders full of women" was his "Bean" moment.

--- merged: Oct 17, 2012 at 11:09 AM ---

Yeah, a definite facepalm moment.

 

Daily Politics Blog - Charles P. Pierce - Political Blogging - Esquire

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/#ixzz29ZW9jGhc​

 

What is it about the smell of desperation that it makes me want to vomit?

Why Ryan would wash a clean pot




Why Ryan would wash a clean pot - The Maddow Blog
--- merged: Oct 17, 2012 at 1:21 PM ---

My sides hurt.

 

Where are the journalists covering the story of why the police would arrest and detain a Presidential Candidate? Maybe she didn't 'qualify' to be there, but still this is not right.

Now, the time and place for the Green Party vs Justice Party vs Democratic party debate would have been during the primary. Especially when the Democrat is running unopposed. Why that doesn't happen, I don't know.

 

I come from a very conservative family, but have always been somewhat in the middle. I have read all the posts trying to learn from them since I have pretty much shut down from all the fighting that has gone on in the family for years. I guess I still don't understand a lot, but I made an effort to watch the debate and found that I liked both guys up on the floor.
Am I wrong by saying it's really the congress and senate that we really need to be concern about?
Geez this is to much right now, but will still work to learn from the posts everyone makes.
I still don't like the whole politic thing, but decided to vote this year. But I'm one of those undecided voters and after last night I still don't know for sure.

 

A BBC journalist sees as systemic the kind of indecision that people like Freetofly still have.

Source: BBC News - Does Town Brawl debate have a real loser?

 

statistically, undecided voters are at this point a vanishingly small percentage.
the main beneficiaries of the idea that anything other than that is the case is the dominant media apparatus. lots of dough to be made in advertising if the idea is abroad that the election is teetering on the decisions of a small percentage of voters who, in the main, don't research a whole lot and so who are swayed, in theory, by the pure television of it all---the perfect tv demographic in short.
personally, i don't doubt that there is some vanishingly small percentage of people who really haven't made up their minds at this point and who haven't done much of any research and so are the perfect tv demographic.
but i think the only thing that's at stake with these people is television's collective ability to insert itself as a medium at the center of american pseudo-democracy. and one of the main reasons it's a pseudo-democracy is that there is a percentage of the population which cannot make up its mind but which does no research and so is the perfect tv demographic.

if that's true, the us system is not democracy: it's shopping.

 

You like them both. Do you know what it is about each of them that you like?

If it were me, I would make a list of the issues I feel are important to me and where I stand on them.
I would grade each candidate on whether or not I felt they supported my stand.

This would have to be done without the benefit of knowing whether they were being truthful in their promises - unless you are prepared to do some heavy research. Getting into the game at this late date sort of rules out your being able to do much in the way of personal fact-checking.

Good luck, freetofly and don't worry too much. If you're still undecided come election day go with your gut instinct. The most important thing is to get out there and vote.

 

Joniemack lays it out there.

Don't be someone who isn't engaged. Hell, even if you don't like any of the candidates, you should still go in and spoil your ballot.

 

This was excellent and really kinda the way I feel. I do have a mental list of what if it goes one way and or the other.

 

The article illustrates one reason why the debates are probably not the ideal way to learn about the candidates. There are a few more reasons.

1) Not enough time allowed for real discussion of the issues and in-depth explanations of policy.

2) The likelihood that one or both candidates will be more concerned with "making points" against their opponent than focusing on their own agenda.

3) Where a candidate might actually stand on an issue becomes fuzzier when they are attempting to appeal to a wide range of voters. For instance, some of Romney's policies changed for the debate audience. One example. In the debate he said he had no opinion on the Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act though in speeches addressing his supporters, he has said that he opposes it.

4) The questions asked don't always address what you are concerned with.

Debates are a snapshot of what you "might" be able to expect but they are not nearly the whole story. Politics has always been a rat's nest of deception and contradiction and it is no less so now. The good news is, because of the internet we have access to more in-depth and varied information about candidates. We can look up voting records, access fact-checking sites, read online editorials and blogs to get the viewpoints of others, possibly providing us with a different perspective. Sometimes it feels like there is too much information.

Some people are single issue or values voters on issues such as abortion, gay marriage, defense spending, size of federal government, etc. They will vote for the candidate that ticks off those one or two requirements they have. Others are just not interested enough in politics to hunt it all down yet they want to participate in the voting process. For them, the debates are the focal point.

No matter which candidate gets elected, I seriously doubt anything is going to change all that dramatically. I'm voting for Obama because I've seen what Republican policies have done to this country in the recent past. For me it's a no-brainer. I feel the economy is too fragile to risk going from the Obama frying pan back into the Republican fire that caused it all in the first place. Romney's economic plan is no different than the Republican plans that have failed in the past. If anything, he has given the most harmful aspects of them a steroid injection.

 

I think that is the big thing this time around. Yes, there are more registered Democrats, but if you lose 5% of your base (but they stay home instead of voting against you), it is a lot harder to make those up in swing voters.

The Democrats are pushing early voting so much to get around the hour long line problem. I've never had to wait more than 10 minutes, but I have seen the lines in other areas. And if you aren't a highly motivated voter, I doubt they will be willing to stand in line for an hour. Their one vote won't matter, but if ten thousand people show up and see the line and turn away because they each think their vote won't matter, it can change the election.