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Politics Obama - Actually doing a good job?

Discussion in 'Tilted Philosophy, Politics, and Economics' started by rogue49, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Source: 75% of Europeans Would Vote for Obama: Report — US Election 2012 - CNBC
     
  2. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Sorry, but it is not me who makes leaps in logic outside what is written. When I discuss A and B it is your assumption that I am ignoring other factors, I rarely ignore other factors. If I say I prefer chocolate ice-cream sprinkled with peanuts as a summer evening snack you will come back with some weird line like I have something against Alaskans who do not eat ice-cream in the winter and have an allergy to nuts.
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2012 at 11:20 AM ---
    Perhaps he should go to Europe with his Hope and Change agenda.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  4. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you wanted "all other things [to be] equal."

    I don't assume you ignore other factors. I ask you about other factors, then you ignore them.

    Both you and I know you are an abstract thinker who likes to ponder personal theories. I don't find it interesting enough, so I try to keep us attuned to reality. You resist this.

    This is why we constantly fail to talk about issues and instead talk about us talking about issues.

    I think you've confused this thread with one in Tilted Food. Here: Tilted Food | The TFP

    In all seriousness, your above analogy is categorically false.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  5. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    US wages are down since President Obama took office. This means people are not only losing ground to inflation, but their purchasing power is less in absolute terms. Heath-care insurance premiums are increasing in excess of inflation. The purchasing power for the average consumer for health-care insurance has dropped significantly.

    In addition when we look at the numbers of people uninsured, the overall number is down but those insured under government programs is up - to about 32%. Obamacare is an unnecessary and costly step toward single-payer. it won't be long before employers can not afford to offer coverage, employers and employees afford to split coverage, or individuals to afford to pay for their own coverage.

    Finally, are you following the trends occurring in the health care market? Are they good in your opinion?
     
  6. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Perhaps Americans need to become better educated. Horrible, the crap that goes on over there.
     
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
  8. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Recently I wrote about fathers and mothers having a caring interest in their children - and you went off into something about gay people being able to provide loving homes for children. Of course they can, but what did that have to do with fathers and mothers having a caring interest in their children? Absolutely nothing. So you conclude I ignore your point???
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2012 at 11:44 AM ---
    Horrible crap goes on on my own block. I have horrible problems. America has horrible problems. If there is a class of people who do not have horrible problems, I suppose they are situated to better educated - whatever that means.

    I find the liberal view on problems interesting. For example, I would assume that Mayor Bloomberg would solve all crime, drug abuse, child abuse, education, health and safety issues- before worrying about Big Gulp sodas. Similarly I think we in the US need to get our house in order before solving the problems of others.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  9. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Yes, of course. What do gay fathers and mothers with a caring interest in their children have to do with fathers and mothers having a caring interest in their children? Good point.

    Maybe I'm just confused about your point. Are you talking about genetic donations vs. providing for family? What's more important?

    You know what? Never mind. I can't even get you to talk about regulations in the health care/insurance industry.
     
  10. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    If one is going to compete, why wouldn't one want to be number one? Is this a Canadian thing, something outside of the typical understanding of an American?
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2012 at 11:48 AM ---
    See, you did it again. Being a father or mother has everything to do with functional reproductive organs and nothing to do with a person's sexual preference.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  11. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Is this your way of saying that America isn't competing with the rest of the world in education, or are you saying America isn't a very good competitor?

    I did what? Get confused by you?

    You're talking about breeding specifically and not the wider implications of being a father or mother.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  12. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Yeah, see, most Europeans (and the large majority of Germans) aren't liberal socialists.

    We're moderate centrists, with many falling on the center-right side. Unlike you guys, we actually have proper debates between the left and right, and not ones based solely on emotions and gun-toting.

    What you guys in the US call center-right is considered the far-right in Europe. Why? Cause it is the far-right.

    Conservatives? Gimme a break. You guys don't even know what conservatism means. It's us German conservatives who completely disregard your "conservatives". Remember how silly we found the Republicans' brinkmanship when they held the US economy hostage just to get some political concessions?

    You mislabel your positions on a regular basis. I can't name any country that so clearly lacks a middle-ground in its political landscape as the US does.

    It's pathetic how one is constantly confronted with either/or choices. You're anti-abortion but want to mantain legal exceptions for extenuating circumstances (rape, sexual assault, statutory rape, etc.)? Well guess what, the parties in the US don't play that way. It's either pro-life or pro-choice.

    No. bloody. middleground.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Doing it again.

    America is competing, we are simply getting our asses kicked.

    Perhaps you can re-read those posts. Two gay men can be married and have a family. That family can be the best family in the world. The children can be loved, happy, well cared for and develop into wonderful adults. And it is possible that the mother of those children would not be a benefit. On a case by case basis this can be true many times over. I simply believe (my personal view) that the human race is better off (generally) if both mothers and fathers are involved in the care and nurturing of their children. My view is not complicated - let's see what you read into it next! Ace, did not mention a dog! He is ignoring the importance of a dog in the upbringing of children?!? What about grandparents? What about the "it takes a village", he is ignoring that too. Wrong, wrong, wrong.
    --- merged: Sep 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM ---
    What is a "moderate centrist"? Here is what I envision - I put my left hand in a bucket of ice and I put my right hand in a bucket of boiling what - does that make me a "moderate centrist"? Or is being a "moderate centrist", really equal to being indifferent? How can a person be moderate or a centrist on the big questions of the day? For example you are either o.k. with Iran having nuclear weapons or you are not? What is the "moderate centrist" position? I think the primary problem in the US today has to do with convoluted thinking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2012
  14. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I'm going to keep doing it if I keep getting confused. At least I don't make assumptions. (I try not to anyway.)

    Why do you think that is?
     
  15. Aceventura

    Aceventura Slightly Tilted

    Location:
    North Carolina
    We have some mayors focused on Big Gulp sodas and not education.
    We have national Education Secretaries who get their jobs without regard to the results from previous jobs.
    We have many who value gold medals more than Nobel Prizes.
    We have teachers unions who care more about job security than teaching.
    We have classes of people who do not have school choice.
    We teach to the lowest common denominator.
    We fear discipline.
    School year is too short.
    Local school districts do not have enough control.
    We believe throwing money at the problem will fix it.
    Etc.
    Etc.
    Etc.

    I could fix our schools but liberals would never allow me to do what needs to be done in the US.
     
  16. Remixer

    Remixer Middle Eastern Doofus

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Truly, only an American can describe our position as badly as you did. We understand, you don't have much to back you up so you resort to this.

    Being a moderate centrist, one evaluates positions, ideas and arguments from both the left and the right, and goes for a balanced approach in one's policy-making.

    Just because US Republicans and Democrats have split up between themselves which positions they take on a range of issues, doesn't mean a leftist position on one agenda can't coexist with a rightist position on another. It's you guys who make balanced political discourse impossible in your own country.

    I, and from what I gather so do many Germans, believe the Iran nuclear issue has been blown way out of proportion. We don't tend to get riled up in emotion-based cries of foul.

    Iran having nuclear weapons isn't nearly as bad as it's made out to be. You know which country really never, ever, ever should have nuclear weapons?

    Pakistan. Out of all the nuclear countries in the world, Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is the most likely to fall into the wrong hands by a long shot. But guess who turned a blind eye on those guys getting it? Israel certainly didn't kick up a fuss back then.

    So, yes: there aren't many logic-based reasons for denying Iran their goal of nuclear weapons. As always with you guys, it's one side's pursuit to maintain its dominant hand over another country that really pushes the issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    This is why education shouldn't be the jurisdiction of a single level of government. I imagine cities who value education won't re-elect such mayors, though I'm sure other politics could get in the way of that.

    I can't speak to this. Are you referring to someone in particular? Would you say the position requires a certain set of skills and experience? Is it a position you can train for? Is there only one set of qualifications for it?

    This is ingrained in the culture. Much of the West has a vein of anti-intellectualism. Sports and the like, well, it's mostly bread & circuses.

    This is a complex issue, and the milage will vary. From what I've heard about teaching in the U.S., it's a dismal state of affairs, so it doesn't surprise me that job security is an issue. Also, it's not the union's role to care for the teaching itself.

    I'm not sure this is really the issue. The issue should be making quality schools a priority. Education quality should be universal. Letting people dodge substandard schools isn't a solution, it's avoidance.

    I'm not sure what this means.

    Do you mean mental self-control, or punishing those who break rules of conduct (i.e., corporal punishment)?

    It's not just the number of hours per year that counts; it's how the hours are spent. (Work harder, not longer kind of thing.) Like in that above link I posted. Out of the top olympic medal winners, the U.S. ranked third in the number of hours per school year. There apparently is no shortage of school hours. It's the lack of quality hours, perhaps.

    I can't speak to this.

    It might be a start in certain areas. It's often a mistake to think that money can't help. I suppose that's how you end up seeing cuts made without thinking much about it. The trick is to use it wisely and not politicize it.

    You never know. Why? Are you talking about privatizing the entire system?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  18. Charlatan

    Charlatan sous les pavés, la plage

    Location:
    Temasek
    I would have a much better time agreeing with you if you just said that you believed that the human race is better of in a two parent home rather than a single parent home. It's the loaded distinction of mother and father that makes your statement sound like it's a thinly veiled attack on same sex marriage.

    I know you believe same sex marriages are acceptable, so I can only assume that you are being sloppy with language and thereby causing confusion to your readers.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    another grade came in for Obama this term...this one from Politifact

     
  20. Joniemack

    Joniemack Beta brainwaves in session

    Location:
    Reading, UK


    The overall decline in wages (predominately the wages of lower and middle-class men) has been occurring for 40 years now.
    Are we meant to take your statement to mean that you consider this one more "failure" on the part of the Obama Presidency? As if he should have been able to reverse a 40 year trend in 4 years?

    Global and marketplace factors be damned! Republican union busting efforts be damned! Wave your magic wand, Mr. Obama and see to it that we get higher wages while still making sure US workers can compete globally in a low-wage driven environment.

    Oh wait, I forgot. The answer is simple. Obama need only be more business friendly (more tax incentives, subsidies, etc) and multi-nationals will come flying back to US shores in a hiring frenzy, ready to scoop up all of our unemployed and pay them more, to boot.

    Why? Because we're Americans damn it, citizens of the greatest nation on earth. More highly skilled, better educated, healthier, and with a better work ethic. And besides, we just plain deserve a better way of life than anyone else.

    And lest we forget - not everyone's wages or income has been in decline the past 4 years and we pretty much know who they are, don't we?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012