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No Children

Discussion in 'Tilted Life and Sexuality' started by Mysugarcane, Aug 27, 2012.

Page 2 of 17
  1. Trinity

    Trinity New Member

    I used to believe that whatever "Meshieba" gave I was willing to help create and so I did. Oh how I wished I had a ball of wisdom to look into before I helped in those nine beautiful creations! I love every one of them, they brought more purpose into my life but after seeing this world {our world} the {human world} go the growth spurts it has socially, economically and how we are mistreating this planet; everyday I am more and more convinced I should have never believed that! What was I thinking, truth be told I wasn't!

    Now they will have to suffer the agonies of a withering world long after my life has expired. They have all spread their wings and flown the coop to seek adventures of their own, but really if I had it to do all over again knowing what I know now, I do not believe I would have had such crazy thoughts, please do not misunderstand what I am saying here, I love my children so very, very much!

    What I am saying is when you are young and brain washed by several ideological value packs and you are non the wiser for them, you are still in love with life and believe the world you encased around you is just that same and you act accordingly, but as you get older your mind wakes up more so to the new, and eventually the adjusted realities and you realize what it is you've done, but by then it was too late, some call this maturity and some refer to it as awakened.

    I do not much care for this world I see going down hill so fast we are already looking for new worlds to inhabit!

    I will only hope and pray that my children all get that chance that would allow them the possibilities in either helping to revive this present world or move on to another learned by the mistakes that we have made here today!!

    Did this make any sense?
     
    Trinity, Aug 27, 2012
    #21
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Mysugarcane

    Mysugarcane Vertical

    I love your city. Being able to live life "at the drop of a hat" is a nice added benefit to being kidless. I've also noticed that when your friends have extra tickets to something all of a sudden you are the first person they think of to call. It's all good.
     
    Mysugarcane, Aug 28, 2012
    #22
  3. fflowley

    fflowley Don't just do something, stand there!

    I was never sure that I wanted children.
    Now I have 3 and couldn't be happier about it.
    BUT, they are an immense investment in time, energy, and love.
    So it's great that people here are making conscious decisions on whether to have children or not.
    There is nothing that makes me sadder these days than seeing children who are unwanted and unloved.
     
    fflowley, Aug 28, 2012
    #23
    • Like Like x 2
  4. rogue49

    rogue49 Tech Kung Fu Artist Staff Member

    Location:
    Baltimore/DC
    Do
    Do Not

    Me, I'm trying...think I will like it...don't know. (I am sure it will be the full spectum of emotion and trial)
    Others, if they don't...cool. As Forest Gump says, one less thing to worry about.

    IMHO, the only thing I get concerned with are those who Do, but do Not want. (or those that shouldn't)

    BTW...there is no rule that says people can't change their minds either way. (except Mother Nature's, but we don't get a choice in that)
     
    rogue49, Aug 28, 2012
    #24
  5. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    We all die alone.

    I really don't care if people decide to have kids or not. I don't even care if my own kids ever have kids. That's their decision and I don't think more or less of them regardless of what they decide. I don't think people have kids because they are bored or needy. I think people have kids because they get pregnant. We are biologically predisposed to reproduce. It's going to happen. If some people have decided not to have children and take very definitive steps to prevent pregnancy, then more power to you. I am happy that you're happy. What I don't think is that your decision makes you wiser or less bored or less needy or more apt to save the planet. That's when I get annoyed by the whole thing. When people who don't want to have kids come to the conclusion that their personal decisions make them better people than all those selfish, bored, needy parents. Atheists can be annoying in the same way.
     
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #25
  6. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Uh, say what? Didn't you just castigate Punk.of.Ages for that kind of logic in another thread or am I thinking of somebody else here?

    Unless you received sex ed in Texas or are the kind of person that makes decisions with a coin, you don't just "get pregnant" in 2012.

    I'm really confused here. I don't see how it's any more or less foolish to create a life for shits and giggles as it is to end one (abortion).
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    Plan9, Aug 28, 2012
    #26
  7. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I find this swings the other way too. I feel that some parents have a sense of belonging to an elite caste, and that those without children have yet to ascend to that stratum of society. The logical conclusion, then, is that those who choose to never ascend are therefore lacking.

    Those of us who are voluntarily child-free can also be considered selfish, a belief that is likely a result of Christian doctrine that urges us to "be fruitful and multiply"—as though having children is a Christian duty (and I'm sure there are parallels in other religions; there are also parallels in more secular circles, but where duty becomes expectation, which I believe is a result of religious doctrine becoming a part of culture). Further, this belief considers the purpose of coupling and copulating is to have children. The coupling and copulating whilst intentionally preventing children (indefinitely) is therefore hedonistic. It's self-indulgent because it is assumed that one should one day have children. It's what we do, right?

    Society also tends to be biased towards the idea that the "ideal household" means parents and children. Households consisting of singles and couples sans children (and accounting for empty nests) is some kind of outlier.

    Sure, these are all on the more extreme end of the position, but there it is, alongside the smug child-free hipsters.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Aug 28, 2012
    #27
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    "[Parents] are no more or less real than non-[parents]."
     
    Plan9, Aug 28, 2012
    #28
    • Like Like x 1
  9. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    No, I didn't castigate anyone. I expressed an opinion regarding the use of abortion as birth control. I didn't say anything about being foolish. I was responding to your remarks about why people get pregnant. And if you're under the impression that people don't 'just get pregnant' in 2012 then, gee, I don't really know how to respond to that bit of wishful thinking.
    --- merged: Aug 28, 2012 at 10:19 AM ---
    I really don't see this bias at work in society and I certainly don't see it at work in this thread. Certainly there are traditions in our society and there are parents who really want to be grandparents and sisters and brothers who want to be aunts/uncles and that sort of thing, but where is this bias playing out at large in our society? Where is what is 'ideal' being held against people who have decided not to have kids? Are Cyn and his wife experiencing bias because of their choice? You know, I'm really sorry that you live among a species that propagates by default, but really, with all the benefits to childless living that are being purported on this thread, I really don't see how you guys are suffering that much.
    --- merged: Aug 28, 2012 at 10:20 AM ---
    And, for certain, I don't see anyone calling you bored or needy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2012
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #29
  10. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    I'm suffering on the inside. Say, what other things do we as a species do by default?
     
    Plan9, Aug 28, 2012
    #30
  11. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    Hey, I'm not the one who stuck my foot in my mouth. Not this time, at least.
     
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #31
  12. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    Oh, I wouldn't suggest many really suffer for it. This is something that is merely observed and ultimately navigated. The bias is there by default. It's usually quite subtle and ingrained in assumptions. Having a family is to be a part of the wider social hegemony that assumes having a family is something we all should do. I wouldn't say this is an overt bias that targets the child-free. It is a bias by default, as it were. If you have children, you may not see it. Those of us without children may simply be more sensitive to it, especially since we have more time and energy for quiet contemplation. :p

    If you want me to expand on this, I will go further to say that raising a family seems to be one of the indicators of success. Compare a voluntarily child-free individual to an individual with two happy, well-adjusted (and planned) children, and all other things being equal, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that most people would consider the latter more successful. Why is that? If this is so, does this not indicate bias?

    Well, I really don't know what people call me behind my back or what they keep to themselves.

    I'm not so worried about that. I really don't care what people call me for not "being blessed with children" or not having a plan for raising a family.

    We kill the fuck out of each other.

    Sex and death and all that rot, Govna!
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Aug 28, 2012
    #32
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Bodkin van Horn

    Bodkin van Horn One of the Four Horsewomyn of the Fempocalypse

    Location:
    Inside The Nucleus of Feminism
    My parental instinct gets activated when I hear nonparents complain about society being mean to them. Guys, I've got a free lap. We can snuggle and rock back and forth and I can coo softly in your ear if you need some comfort. ;)
     
    Bodkin van Horn, Aug 28, 2012
    #33
    • Like Like x 2
  14. cynthetiq

    cynthetiq Administrator Staff Member Donor

    Location:
    New York City
    We do all die alone. Even when someone is by your bedside, they aren't in your head.

    Sometimes I find it really condescending when some women believe they are more superior to others just because little beings came out of their vaginas. They didn't do anything but like you said, what they were biologically predisposed to do.

    Right.

    Sometimes I find it very much annoying and unfair. "I can't do that because I have to go home to my kids." Well what because I don't have kids I ALWAYS have to be the one to put in extra hours and finish the projects? I ALWAYS was the one that fixed the last minute emergencies. I know my parents did what they had to do and I always didn't get picked up on time because they had to work sometimes that meant going with them to work on Saturdays for a few hours.
    --- merged: Aug 28, 2012 at 10:50 AM ---
    Thanks, can I have choco milk too?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2012
    cynthetiq, Aug 28, 2012
    #34
  15. Plan9

    Plan9 Rock 'n Roll

    Location:
    Earth
    Hey, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt by my initial post. I'm not here to offend anybody.

    ...

    Your training is complete, Conan.

    ...

    You can't have chocolate milk AND chocolate chip cookies. If you want chocolate chip cookies, you're going to have to drink normal milk.

    /Bam!, look at my parenting
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    Plan9, Aug 28, 2012
    #35
    • Like Like x 2
  16. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    I suppose it indicates a nebulous, meaningless sort of bias that doesn't really affect anyone's opportunity or freedom. Money is also used as an indicator of success in life. I don't agree, but I understand why it is there and it doesn't really bother me that I am not on the winning end of that spectrum. Yet, you start a discussion about that and you will have a diversity of opinions about how relevant it is as an indicator of success, as well.


    I don't mind what people call me behind my back, either.
    --- merged: Aug 28, 2012 at 11:07 AM ---
    I've never met these women who think they are more superior because they had babies, but I will take your word that they exist. I have had three babies and the thought has never occurred to me. And while, like I said, I am sure they exist, I can only imagine that some of that 'superiority' is actually misdiagnosed feelings of pride and other chemical reactions/neural impulses that occur in the brain due to motherhood. And there are biological components to the emotions of parenthood. We know these things. It's kind of silly to hold them against people.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2012
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #36
  17. Baraka_Guru

    Baraka_Guru Möderätor Staff Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    I can't speak for everyone, as situations vary, especially where overbearing family is concerned, but in my own case, it's more annoyance and occasional inconvenience than anything.

    My own family has stopped asking me when I'm going to have children (and also when I'm going to marry my SO). All my siblings (five) save one have children, and I won't be surprised if I end up being the only one among them with no children. It was always, "When are you going to have children?" It was never, "Are you planning on having children?" Of the four siblings who have children, all of them got married for what seemed to be the express purpose of having children. It was like they were all following a script. As someone who was married (with no plans for children), divorced, and now common law, I haven't been following the script. It was like my siblings and their in-laws were wondering when I was going to fix things and make it right by remarrying and getting on with the having children thing.

    It's these kind of assumptions that I'm talking about regarding bias. It's not particularly limiting or impeding as you mentioned, but it certainly was grating for a while, and it was occasionally offensive, as I felt that they were implying that my lack of children needed to be rectified and a failure to do so would be a fundamental failure on my part.

    I do get the occasional hint from them regarding my situation, as my siblings are still producing. Just recently, we borrowed my young niece and nephew from my brother for a few days to give him and his wife some breathing space with their newborn. Upon returning the children, my sister-in-law, no fewer than three times, hinted that having her children on our own for a few days would be good practice and inspiration for having our own. You could shrug it off as a joke, but as it happens, she is by far the most religious in our family and is certainly among the Christian set that looks at raising a family as a good Christian thing to do, since children are "God's ultimate blessing."
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2012
    Baraka_Guru, Aug 28, 2012
    #37
  18. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    You didn't hurt my feelings. You annoyed me. But then, what else is new? If annoyance could somehow be channeled and transformed into electricity, we'd at least be able to keep Detroit running for a couple hundred years with the sheer magnitude of annoyance that runs back and forth between our posts...at times.
     
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #38
  19. Borla

    Borla Moderator Staff Member

    FWIW, I think the people who think they are special solely/mainly because they figured out how to procreate (I've been around them, but they are definitely the minority of parents IMO) would probably find an alternative but equally obnoxious and annoying way to let us all know they were special if they hadn't had kids.
     
    Borla, Aug 28, 2012
    #39
    • Like Like x 5
  20. mixedmedia

    mixedmedia ...

    Location:
    Florida
    Well, that sounds like the dynamics of your own personal family situation. Not a societal thing.

    My older sister has never been married, never had children. And it's a non-issue for us. She is happy, she wants to be on her own and she has no desire to have children and I don't think she ever gives much thought to how she is perceived by other people. At least, she never talks about it with me and we talk about everything. I think if she felt this judgment from other people, she would tell me.
     
    mixedmedia, Aug 28, 2012
    #40
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